<p>Good pitch for Andover/BS, but I still think quantman’s analysis is a good one. No BS can offer EC opportunities as a home can. People at BS will be lucky to get a ride to pizza hut when they get tired of their dorm food.</p>
<p>I don’t know if they stop for pizza on the way back, but volunteer drivers - I think some are parents of day students that are involved - provide transportation for community service programs. Just as important, is the far greater number of school-based ECs. To get the equivalent of some of the on-campus activities my daughter participated in at BS (for example, her advanced dance groups that the high school didn’t offer), we used to spend thousands of dollars and many hours/miles of driving when she was in public school. It’s also much easier to start new programs than at public school because there was no need to get school board or other senior administration approval to fund the cost (primarily the advisor stipend). At Andover my daughter was able to start a new dance group by asking a teaching fellow to advise, filling out a form and recruiting new members. She had it up and running within a few weeks of enrolling and no one even flinched. The students were also self-sufficient, scheduling and managing their own practices and choreographing their own numbers. It was a fantastic experience. </p>
<p>Then there were the unique ones. I wonder where I’d find the nearest school handbell choir…</p>
<p>or bell changers</p>
<p>Andover has a huge endowment and such resources are not available to most other boarding schools. Day parents don’t exist at many BS. It is obvious that we can’t extrapolate Andover opportunities to most of the rest of BS.</p>
<p>Looking at these (great) numbers, statistically, it would seem that placement into ivies / sM is superlative. However, I know there are always hidden factors. For example, how many of the Harvard admits were legacy or come from “old money” ( who are more likely to have parents who put them into PHillips )? A recent book showed that if you contributed (!) more than a cool million to Harvard, you had a 50 % chance of getting in. </p>
<p>…looked at in another way, if I’m the average Joe Schmoe, do those great HYPSM numbers apply to my kid? Something tells me no…</p>
<p>Exactly. We discussed some of this (Strength of a Hook) on another theread.</p>
<p>*A recent book showed that if you contributed (!) more than a cool million to Harvard, you had a 50 % chance of getting in. *</p>
<p>Only a 50% chance? Seems like a million dollars doesn’t buy what it used to.</p>
<p>In my naivety, I would have thought that a cool million would have nearly assured admittance even these days. I suppose the price has gone up.</p>
<p>Padre13, I read your post with great interest knowing your daughter graduated from Andover and got into “top 10” just like quantman and mashaa’s kids. It’s the beauty of this forum that people having similar experience providing different reflections and perspectives. To be honest, I do feel compelled to agree that kids like quantman and mashaa’s didn’t quite get an edge in college admission by attending Andover, and they could’ve likely achieved the same result by staying back in their local school. However, what concerns me a little is that when asked if college admission is not a consideration (the kid got admitted to “top 10” anyway), whether Andover education is worthwhile, and the answer was negative. I’ve been told on this forum many times that kids from boarding schools get very well prepared for colleges, in terms of academic training, independence, mutitasking, time management, etc. and that can benefit their whole life. Is that still true? Top colleges are a long shot for anyone anywhere. While I do think college placement is important for high school students, it’s that shake of the fundamental belief in the long term value of the boarding school education that concerns me.</p>
<p>I’ve said all along that my daughter was well positioned to get into a top university without Andover (as were mashaa’s and quantman’s kids). Whether it was a “top ten” school would be determined by her interests and the grace of a higher power, but she was going to do extremely well. She was even a potential legacy to one of Ivies (not the school that she is attending), but that benefit would be minimal in admissions as my donations miss the “Harvard price” by quite a few orders of magnitude. I will say (see my earlier posts) that I think she had far more options after PA because it provided experiences that made her an even more compelling candidate.</p>
<p>The motivation for my mini-tome was the negative tone of some posts based on the following: (1) the presumption that the primary value of Andover (or its peers) is measured almost exclusively by Ivy admission; (2) a forecast of impending doom for #1; (3) that the school’s actions were driven in order to avoid #2; and (4) that going to a local public school is a panacea for all but a few superstars.</p>
<p>I don’t believe any of those are necessarily true, but I’ll just conclude by focusing on the positives of our experience. My daughter learned so much at Andover about herself, the world and what it will take to be successful at one of the world’s most challenging universities. I have no doubt that she is doing better that she would have done coming from our very good local high school had she been fortunate enough to be admitted. It shows in her academic preparation, her confidence, and her ability to integrate and become an active participant in her new environment. That’s good enough for us.</p>
<p>Thank you for your insight. Someone on this board once questioned whether I was trying to “validate” something. I guess this is what I am trying to validate - when my kid graduates from BS can I see and say the same things as you do about your daughter’s BS experience? Time will tell, but thank you for re-confirming that possibility.</p>
<p>If you don’t mind -
<a href=“3”>quote</a> that the school’s actions were driven in order to avoid #2;
[/quote]
Aren’t the school’s actions at least partly driven by - not necessarily ivy admission prospect but rather a great college placement record though? Shouldn’t they be? It sounds like many people agree that as the competition for admission to elite colleges is getting more and more fierce, top BS in general is facing new challenges in maintaining their advantage in college admission. I am not sure if admitting PG’s and some two year students with high potential is mainly geared to boost college admit stats, but if it is I don’t think it’s the right approach that the majority of BS families would like to see.</p>
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</p>
<p>This can happen at many good schools: public, private, parochial, homeschool, not just at BS. That’s why there are a whole lot of non-BS students at the world’s most challenging universities. MIT used to be called Made in Taiwan, I don’t know if it’s true. One could even say that there are more non-BS folks at these top universities. Better take on this is Padre is happy with his/her d’s Andover education. I hope it’s not a parent’s guilt factor after paying 50K per year, we may not want to look like we made a mistake. Just throwing in that possibility.</p>
<p>Interesting attempt at psychoanalysis.</p>
<p>1) It doesn’t cost $50K to attend Andover.</p>
<p>2) My daughter was on partial FA so we didn’t pay $40K either.</p>
<p>3) Of course kids can be successful from other environments. I said as much. I also said my daughter would have been successful had she stayed in public school. So I wasn’t the one making absolute distinctions. I was merely responding to an analysis that was attempting to justify a conclusion with certainty that all but a small number of superstars kids would be better off at their local public school than at Andover. I don’t believe such an absolute pronouncement is valid, particularly given the large variance between what is available to families of different economic means, different geographies, etc. </p>
<p>4) Very few schools of any type offer the educational quality of Andover combined with a diverse and dynamic community. Surely you don’t think all schools are created equal. Unless you have an option that is in the top few percent of schools in the country (most people don’t) Andover represents a significant academic and college prep upgrade. Even that, however, doesn’t make it appropriate for everyone nor does it necessarily change an individual’s chances of success. Each family has to make their own decisions based on their situation, priorities, their child’s skills and personality, etc. In our case it was a net positive by a large margin. For others that may not be the case.</p>
<p>Tuition is not the total cost of education, it’s just the cake. You need icing, toppings, and the rest. Additional costs are discussed here. [thread=926349]Click Me[/thread]</p>
<p>Depends which one you’re going to, to answer the question. if you’re at a top one such as Hades, Top Boston or NYC schools, and others, then yes. Even some that are totally unkown, in other states or suburbs can make a real difference. HOwever, there are some schools known to have bad reps, so just be careful if the only reason you’d be going is for college admission…you’d kind of defeat the purpose.</p>
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<p>Oh come on. If you want to play silly games then start adding up the cost for students living at home (food, transportation, activities). I know some parents that can fund many of those costs beyond tuition/R&B from the savings on not having to pay insurance for a 16 year old driver. As I noted, I spent a couple of thousand dollars per year on dance tuition and transportation to lessons, competitions, etc. that went away when my daughter went to boarding school and could partake of numerous on campus opportunities. Heck, paying for school lunches can cost about $400 per year. The trade offs are very family specific but living at home isn’t free either. Tuition and R&B for Andover this year was $39.9K. If you are going to find $10K in additional costs beyond that which you would have paid at home (e.g. if it would have cost $5K to pay for your child’s expenses at home then Andover’s would have to be $15K to generate a $50K marginal cost) then your lifestyle is probably not one of frugality.</p>
<p>Edit: Wow. My daughter spent very little out of pocket while on campus (I, of course, paid for clothes, the cell phone bill and books). Other than splitting the occasional pizza most costs are already covered. Reading the above I just realized that the savings on school lunches probably paid for most of her weekly spending money.</p>
<p>Padre, It is not silly game. Are you saying that the net cost at BS is the same or lower than school at home? Not everyone spends thousands on dance. Many parents send kids to BS from afar. Just add up the cost for kid visiting home, parents visiting kids many times a year. What if that parent is from CA or Beijing? You may be living closer to Andover.</p>
<p>No I didn’t say that net cost at BS is cheaper. What I said is that spending large incremental amounts is a choice not a requirement for most students and their families.</p>
<p>The parent that threw out the $50K number lived in New York. I highly doubt that he was spending $10K per year to visit his child a few hundred miles away. Sure, there are kids travelling thousands of miles to get to Andover and they may have larger expenses. If they choose to attend then they are biting off a greater cost. They may also choose to buy first class tickets and it could cost $70K per year. If so, those people also probably would spend tens of thousands if their kids were at home. But for those for whom money is an issue - and that includes me - it is possible to save money. In fact, some kids from out of the country actually stay with domestic families for break either because of money or time. </p>
<p>Bottom line - if you want to pay $50K or more and can afford it then it is definitely possible. On the other hand, if you want to pay less and can’t afford it you probably have (1) financial aid and (2) ways to sacrifice to hold down costs. That’s what my daughter did. She wasn’t exactly taking the train to Boston and shopping on Newbury Street every weekend. She was living on a very frugal allowance and doing quite well thank you.</p>
<p>By the way, did you know that on weekends you can stay in those mini-suite hotels clustered around nearby office parks for virtually nothing…breakfast included.</p>
<p>My point is simpler than that, I’m just talking about average cost which I think is 50K, not just the tuition 40K. Individual cost is just that, individual.</p>
<p>Fine. If you want to calculate average cost while recognizing that it really is not relevant to any particular individual, then you need to factor in that 25% of the school is made up of day students and 40+% are on financial aid (including 10+% on full scholarship that covers tuition, R&B, books, a computer and living expenses). Those will significantly decrease the average.</p>
<p>So much depends not only on the BS but on the alternative. One public high school in my area has not only extremely strong academics but fabulous athletics and arts programs, including a fencing program that has kids recruited by the Ivies every year, while other schools within a few miles are eliminating their after-school programs due to budget problems. </p>
<p>Being the valedictorian of a class of 100 in an area with weak schools will not stand you in as good stead with colleges as being somewhere in the top 10% of a large school known for rigorous academics.</p>