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The average 18 year old’s understanding of debt is severely lacking. It doesn’t help that their well-intentioned but misguided parents are none the wiser.</p>
<p>Someone who has never had a real expense in their life cannot be expected to understand that they are about to mortgage the rest of their living days. I know many people who are overly optimistic about their chances. Statistics suggest that more than a few of them will be disappointed.</p>
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<p>That is because a high-school senior has not worked one second in the software engineering industry and does not know how the hiring processes are or the loopholes. That high school senior knows nothing about:</p>
<p>1) There are more software job openings than available people which means…</p>
<p>2) Even the state school CS grad with a 2.5 GPA will get a job in which…</p>
<p>3) That same state school grad will be sitting right next to the Georgia Tech or Carnegie Mellon grad…with both of them reporting to a manager from the University of Montana</p>
<p>4) Industry software certifications can offset school brand names</p>
<p>5) The ability to learn the latest (and hottest) software technology is THE #1 factor in sustaining employment.</p>
<p>6) The more years of experience one has, the less school brand-name prestige matters for hiring and graduate school admissions (for grad schools not in Top-10)</p>
<p>7) At some very good graduate schools, enough work experience can get you “conditionally admitted” into a grad engineering program…only needing to ace the first 3 courses to get FULLY admitted…without a brand-name undergrad school or (in some cases) without a GRE exam.</p>
<p>8) A Top Secret/SCI/Polygraph security clearance will pay you up to $60K MORE doing the SAME job that is in the private sector.</p>
<p>See, a high-school senior does not know all of the above. Most of them see: Must Get In Top School–>Work at Google/Facebook/Apple/Microsoft–>Need Top Grad School as the only path when there are multiple paths.</p>
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You have a valid point, maybe you should preach that message more forcefully to hs students or be a counselor to see if students are listening. You are against the tide, not just the trend. Misguided no not, this is the reality. I don’t think parents or students made it in the first place. If prestige companies start hiring grads from much less prestige engineering school first, why anyone wants to spend that kind money to go to elite engineering schools? Then maybe you’d be worried about the bridge might give away under your car.</p>
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Are we just talking about CS or in general? If you are talking about a particular major which is in high demand, an advice could be to quit hs, go to cc…and make six figures if one has the skills - no schools needed prestige or no prestige.</p>
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<p>Of course, many do not realize that the big well known companies like GAFAM often have the widest recruiting reach (and they are easy to find and apply to even if you don’t see them in your career center).</p>
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Sorry, but I think you need to document this. I do not agree that the “average Joe” even has a conception of prestigious universities beyond maybe Harvard and the state flagship with a football team.</p>
<p>Gallup did a public opinion poll in 2003:
[Harvard</a> Number One University in Eyes of Public](<a href=“Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public”>http://www.gallup.com/poll/9109/harvard-number-one-university-eyes-public.aspx)
“About a fourth of the respondents mentioned a college or university other than those named below, which means that there are a wide variety of colleges that are perceived to be the best by only a very small percentage of the population. Additionally, as can be seen, about one out of five Americans did not name any college or university.”
I don’t follow this reasoning. Can you elaborate?</p>
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<p>I think much of that has to do with immaturity and peer pressure at that age. When you’re 17/18 and a senior year in HS, you are surrounded by people bragging (and lying) about their stats and where they are going to school. The competitiveness is fierce, and kids naturally want to fit in and be cool, and at that age, the cool colleges are the ones that are exclusive and prestigious. Getting in to anything less is considered a failure.</p>
<p>At some point in life though (and this WILL happen - usually in college or after college), reality kicks in and you come to realize just how silly all of that hyper-competitiveness was. Some competitiveness is good and healthy, but there is a point where egos start taking over, and the level of competitiveness becomes excessive and unhealthy.</p>
<p>I have no problem with engineers posting their personal and work experience that says prestige matters not much in their work. But when it gets to recruiters and company HRs, it’s obvious that they have a different mindset than engineers.</p>
<p>I also agree with the comments about immaturity of hs students and their eager parents. But putting most or all the blame on them is just one-sided judgment. Companies are not hiring from the bottom up (least prestige schools first), plus societal pressure are also to blame in my opinion. So to just blame current naive students and misguided parents is not the way to fix this problem. I didn’t create this phenomenon and why should I get half of the blame?</p>
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For the first part of my comments on post #83, it is further explained above. The second part was an illustration about the danger of having least capable engineers on the job building a structure, like a bridge. The more prestige an engineering school is, the more vigorous its education would be. I would be more assured if the structure was calculated by a grad from HM, for an example, in the same line of thoughts about my doctors.</p>
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I don’t know what you mean by “prestige” in this context. I encourage you to ask your state DOT for the list of campuses where they recruit.</p>
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One way to find out what Prestige in engineering means is to go to the ranking of USNews.</p>
<p>Sorry I don’t have the time to call up DOT. If you have any info, please share here.</p>
<p>For example:
[NCDOT:</a> Careers, College Programs](<a href=“http://www.ncdot.gov/careers/careerdev/collegeprograms.html#recruit]NCDOT:”>http://www.ncdot.gov/careers/careerdev/collegeprograms.html#recruit)</p>
<p>The USNews ranking is flawed. U Wyoming and Montana State are examples of schools with excellent reputations in their areas but low ranks.</p>
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<p>That is actually not correct. The categorical rankings (i.e. program specific rankings) generated by US News are actually not prestige-based - They are rankings derived solely from peer-assessment surveys, not objective metrics like the national and regional school rankings. </p>
<p>The peer-assessment rankings are actually good rankings in that they DONT rely on prestige factors (i.e. income student stats, endowment, racial diversity, giving rates, etc). Peer assessments allow the lesser-known schools to make themselves known by demonstrating that they offer quality programs in certain areas (even though the schools themselves may not be “prestigious”).</p>
<p>So are we going to debate the merits of each ranking now? - I hope not. It’s been debated countless times on the forum. I did say “One way to…”, and I never said it’s the only way. Everyone should take into consideration of multiple sources and factors when making such an important decision as which school to go to. Things are not all in black and white - there are many colors and shades in between. When reading something, take with a grain of salt and don’t believe everything comes across.</p>
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I can assure you that I would be assured on a bridge built by grads of either schools, but “I would be MORE assured if the structure was calculated by a grad from HM.” It’s all in a relative term.</p>
<p>What is HM?</p>
<p>@no Most likely Harvey Mudd. </p>
<p>@GenDad Do you run an engineering company or a manager/supervisor in a company?</p>
<p>Neither …</p>
<p>Has it been found that bridges engineered by graduates of U. Wyoming or Montana State fall down more than bridges engineered by graduates of more prestigious universities?</p>
<p>I didn’t think so.</p>
<p>College prestige is a very shallow way to judge someone’s competence.</p>
<p>On the contrary, it’s pretty common for employers on this forum to complain how bad employees that graduated from MIT and the like are at actually solving problems (although they are very good at finding them).</p>
<p>@GenDad That’s good. I would never want to work for someone who believes my “bridge calculation” is inferior to someone who went to a higher ranked school than I did. The name of a college doesn’t make the person. </p>
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Extremely shallow. </p>
<p>How are you going to base a person’s ability to make something solely off where they went to college. The worker who graduated from a 150th ranked school could have twice or even three times the amount of experience/qualifications as the worker who went to a 20th ranked school. You wouldn’t know because you were so hopped up on the name.</p>
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I didnt say so either. </p>
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Hate to disappoint you, but thats how I found my doctors, fortunately. </p>
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Any stats that MIT engineering grads were worse than engineering grads from your school? Please back up your claim with stats, not hearsay.</p>
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In which post did I mention about you or your bridge calculation?</p>
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Are you suggesting that high school seniors should apply more to the 150th ranked school than the top engineering schools? Why am I not seeing a sub-forum for “CC Around 150th Ranked Universities” in place of “CC Top Universities”? Is CC biased as well?</p>
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<p>Given the high level of selectivity of all US medical schools, and the rigor of US medical residency (so even graduates of foreign medical schools who get through US medical residency will have passed a high bar), it is likely that the quality of physician varies a lot more within each medical school’s graduates than between medical schools’ graduates.</p>