<p>My kid wants to go to a large public school, and applied to eight universities with no strong preference for any of them (except one, which costs $30K a year for nonresidents and is unlikely to offer a big scholarship). This kid has a good record with ok scores (640W, 640M, 700W, 31ACT, top 1/3 with a 3.7), but honestly did NOT work in high school or do any test prep -- although now claiming to be highly motivated to pursue a track that will lead to med school. </p>
<p>Scholarship offers are starting to arrive. How much should we weigh the bottom line cost of college? Schools like SUNY, Toledo or Ohio U will end up costing about $20,000 (or more) less than U-Pitt, PSU or OSU. The "How to get into med school" books say it's more important to get a high GPA and do well on MCATS than to go to a big name-school. I went to graduate school myself from a public university, and tend to agree with that advice...but that was a long, long time ago. I think I can swing SUNY, Toledo or Ohio U without loans, but not the other schools. I'm an older parent nearing retirement who will be totally tapped out from putting 3 kids through college and won't be able to help with grad school. </p>
<p>Should we weigh this fact very heavily when considering when to start going into debt? Should my kid choose the school with lower admissions standards hoping to be an academic star? Should my kid choose PSU or Pitt as higher ranked schools, hoping for better preparation for the MCATS? My kid is asking me for suggestions, and I'm trying to be fair and not let SAVE MONEY--SAVE MONEY overwhelm good sense.</p>
<p>It's really up to your finances. I think there are very good schools available which offer merit scholarships (some in OH like Wooster or Ohio Wesleyan) which might work well. That should leave funding for grad school. We did grad school on loans.</p>
<p>For medical school the guides you have are correct.</p>
<p>The MCAT (and pre-med requirements in general) are wide in breadth but shallow in depth, everything tested is introductory material. Therefore few schools are going to be phenomenal in every area, and even a great program in say Biology is going to provide too MUCH information to be useful on the MCAT and even in medical school (many bio majors require courses in botany and zoology and stuff that isn't relevant in medical school). When I taught Kaplan MCAT prep, I often told science majors that they needed to leave what they knew at the door because it could get them in trouble on the exam.</p>
<p>So academically, I lean towards saying name is not worth the extra money. </p>
<p>The focus should be on finding the school that is the absolute best place for yoru child to excel in all areas - academically, socially, physically, emotionally. I tend to think that cost is a part of determining fit as well, but that is up for debate for some people and cases.</p>
<p>Located in Pittsburg, so I'll guess Pennsylvania. Wait for scholarship offers from Pitt and PSU (though I don't know how much you will get with a 31 ACT). My mom and uncle both went to a lower ranked LAC in Ohio 20 years ago. My mom found herself in a Michigan PhD program and my uncle found himself at Sloan for an MBA. It is very possible to go from a lower ranekd college to a top program, especially for Med School, but most of the students at these schools do not end up in top graduate programs, so you have to wonder what sort of effect being around fewer academic stars will have on your child. However, PSU and OSU are BIG party schools, so that may affect study habits as well.</p>
<p>Chances are, no matter where you go, you will be preparing for the MCAT on your own, so cost for classes should also be considered. The only advantage for Pitt, PSU, and OSU is that they have med schools, so that provides research opportunities and other opportunities that other schools cannot (I have no idea if OU or SUNY Toledo have med schoools). At the end of the day, most premeds switch majors, so if child wants to go into business, PSU and OSU have more name recognition than the other colleges, and would make it easier to get a foot in the door for interviews.</p>
<p>This is very, very helpful. Thank you! I'm trying not to push right now, since I'd hate to discover in 2 years that I pushed in the wrong direction...the more data (and opinions!) the better. </p>
<p>Yes, we're in PA. I'm using the cost of PSU and Pitt as my financial ceiling. Our cost for Ohio U, Toledo and SUNY with the scholarship awards is about $15K per year, compared with $20-21K for PSU and Pitt (assuming no scholarships from either of them). Pitt, PSU, OSU, Toledo and SUNY all have medical schools, but since admissions aren't weighted towards their own students that doesn't seem to be a big deal. Pitt, Ohio U and SUNY have neuroscience programs that interest my kid (and Toledo and SUNY have pharmacy programs that are within reach). </p>
<p>The point about finding the school at which my kid can grow and excel is something I think we'll talk about this weekend. The focus has been on majors and cost. I don't think we've spent enough time on quality of life considerations. Whle I've been worrying about money, my kid's focus has been on grad school. We've both overlooked or minimized the importance of enjoying life and finding opportunities for personal growth in college.</p>
<p>Has your kid visited these schools? For example, PSU and UB are light years apart in atmosphere. It might not matter but it could help to walk around campus, go to a class, etc.</p>
<p>We've done college visits. The visits eliminated many schools (that's how we got down to eight, although it's hard to believe). We're rescheduling second visits now. My kid did eliminate schools (U MD, U DE, U RI, Villanova, John Hopkins, Temple, U KY, Ohio Northern, etc.) through visits for various reasons, and got into all of the 8 on the final list. </p>
<p>Of the 8, it looks like Duquesne and UCONN will be too expensive even with financial aid, dropping down to the remaining 6. My kid said any of these would probably be ok....as long as med school was reachable....here we go again, since they're in different tiers, cost, distance, size and atmosphere. Sigh. And May 1 is rapidly approaching.... </p>
<p>To complicate the story a little bit, Dad has a terminal degenerative disease. I guess I favor the schools a little bit further away since the next few years are going to be tough (Dad won't be aware of whether or not they're around). I'm desperate to find reasons to eliminate schools from the final 6 choices so I can get back to worrying about other stuff.</p>
<p>Why anyone from Pennsylvania would even consider the SUNYs is beyond me. Penn State and Pitt are, in my opinion (and, evidently many others' considering how many New Yorkers you have there) heads above any SUNY.</p>
<p>SUNY Buffalo is on the list because of its good pharmacy guarantee program. My older kid (lower stats) went to SUNY and liked it. He had a large, comfortable single room, made lots of new friends, and got a nice scholarship that brought the cost way down. Our visits there were all positive. They have a medical school and many biological/medical science programs, including one of the only programs in the country for nuclear medical technology. Most classroom buildings are connected by a huge underground network, so that kids don't have to go out into bad weather. Even the bus pick-up at the freshman dorms is underground -- very well designed. Kid #1 did have to transfer when he changed majors. His advisor really worked to design a major for him at SUNY, but kid #1 decided to transfer to the established program for his new major at PSU. All of his credits at SUNY transferred to PSU except for one class in which he earned a c-, so his positive experience with freshman year was cheaper than if he had gone to PSU initially (he's spending sophomore year at a PSU branch campus to ensure that his sophomore credits will also transfer, and can't wait to get to State College next year once he has the required 60 credits for transfers). Anyway, the guaranteed pharmacy program, cost and kid #1's recommendations are why SUNY earned a spot in the final 6. It would make it easier if my kid would pick an undergraduate major (SUNY or Toledo's Pharmacy program? Pitt or Ohio U's Neuroscience program? PSU, Pitt or OSU's microbiology or cell biology program?) but the only thing I keep hearing is med school, med school, med school.</p>
<p>Right now the order of cost (based on scholarship dollars received to date) from cheapest to most expensive is Toledo, Ohio U, SUNY...and then a nearly $5K jump a year to Pitt, PSU and OSU.</p>
<p>Being from New York the only suny i would consider would be UB, esp. for med school after. It really comes down to feel of the campus. Im planning to transfer for next year after going to a larger public school this year. If your kid didnt exel or work that hard in highschool a larger school gives him chances to do that again. Where smaller schools can give more personal attention and intimate class room settings.</p>
<p>my take is forget about which is "better" in terms of ranking. As bigredmed says, the entrance requirements for med school are based on the basics that can be learned anywhere. What matters more is the fit of the school. Here are a few example areas: How is the advising? How hard to see a counselor? Do kids live on campus or commute? What is the atmosphere on campus -- is a kid that studies hard a subject of scorn, are most kids drinking Thurs evening thru Sat? What kind of kids does the school attract? All large publics are not alike, and even out west you can see differences in the kids who go to ucla and uc santa-cruz, between uc berkeley and uc davis.</p>
<p>Someone once wrote that they decided they could characterize a school by answering 2 questions: 1) what are kids doing 8pm Thurs nite? 2) what are they doing 2pm Saturday afternoon. There is some truth in that ...</p>
<p>If possible have your son visit for an overnite visit; if he has friends there he can bring a sleeping-bag and crash on their floor for a nite. Spending a full day someplace brings the place to life in a way that a 2-hour tour does not.</p>
<p>Although it may have changed in the 20 years since I knew pre-med kids (and one would hope so!) some pre-med programs have a cut-throat culture, some one of support for each other.<br>
As the mom of a law student, which sounds similar, GPA and LSAT are the main considerations. imho, a school where he can get a high GPA is better than going to BigName pre-med where he might be in the middle. Since he was not a super worker in high school, he might be best served finding a school where he will get the chance to do well from the start, and get the support from students and teachers. For law school there was actually a grid that let you see the GPA/LSAT numbers and schools that you had a chance to get accepted. Just like undergrad, dropping a tier can give merit money. Even with med school I would think this can matter. It let my son have less loans and therefor he could look at jobs based less on salary and more on corporate culture. With med school less loans at the start might mean more economic ability to stay for advanced training?
One other GPA method used by one of my cousins-she researched which of her classes were the hardest, or had the hardest grading teacher. She then took those classes during the summer. By her own admission she wasn't the highest IQ kid in her year, but she graduated 3rd in her class by making sure she had the best chance for a high grade in all her classes.</p>
<p>This sounds like very practical advice -- thank you. Toledo, Ohio U, Pitt and SUNY stuff is still all over the table but OSU and PSU appear to be dropping down the list of finalists (statistically it's probably harder to be a top student, to develop relationships with professors, etc. when you're one of a few hundred premed students than if you're one of a hundred). </p>
<p>I spoke with our family doctor, who is relatively young. She concurred with the advice that it's better to major in something that you love and do well at the same time that you're (1) getting Med school requirements and (2) studying, studying, studying for the MCATS. She said that her partners discussed this question, and one of them recommended a major in philosophy or bioethics (she majored in biochem). She voted for her own school -- which is on the finalist list -- for an undergrad degree. They recommended choosing the school where my kid may get the highest grades, no matter what "tier" it's in. When you combine this info with the fact that more $ is available from lower tier schools for good students, the next question is whether the kid is enough of a self-starter to stay goal-oriented despite easier classes. I wish I could ask the ask the Board-Genii that question too!</p>
<p>You can go to any of those schools and get into medical school easily with a decent MCAT and GPA. The issue of branding comes when you want to apply to elite medical schools. If you want to be a regular doctor, then it doesn't matter if its Kanas State or John Hopkins. An MD is an MD.</p>