<p>Scarletleavy states it perfectly. All of these arguements come back to "where does life begin?" I don't believe a life is a life until it can live outside the womb. Oh, my mom is pro-choice, by the way, I was a planned pregnancy so there was no reason to abort.</p>
<p>But the greater question is why should a fetus have rights, rights that by very nature override the mother's rights. I am much more comfortable giving an actual being rights as opposed to a potential being. </p>
<p>And I disagree with the two counts murder law. I think they should be charged with illegally inducing an abortion, but not murder. </p>
<p>And by the way doctor's don't pull fetuses out limb by limb. And the procedure I think you are referring to, is rarely used. Most procedures are performed in the 8-20 week period, it is not developed enough to pull it out limb by limb. </p>
<p>And again its not murder. The fetus is not a separate entity and therefore does not qualify as a being with rights. Murder can only be committed upon those with rights. I kill flies, mosquitoes and ants all the time. They have no rights. Its not murder. </p>
<p>Again why should your morals and beliefs dictate what goes on in my body?</p>
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And Remember - Your mom was prolife - you should be too
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</p>
<p>I'll go tell my mom you said so, I'm sure she'll be surprised to find this out.</p>
<p>My mom is pro-choice, as is my grandmother.</p>
<p>and again where does it say that a baby in the womb has no rights? you dont believe it has any rights, but no where does it say it doesnt. and i know, you're saying it never says they do have rights either, but unless we know for a fact that its not considered a us citizen you cant say otherwise. you have to give it the benefit of the doubt - protect the innocent who cant protect themselves.
and scarletleavy - where have you been? how do you think they perform abortions? they either insert instruments and honestly tear (suck with a vacuum) the arm off, and the legs and then separate the body from the head. and then, if the baby is too far along, they crush the head until its small enough to be pulled through. and if this procedure isnt used, they might use partial birth, where they induce labor, and just when the head is out, they puncture it, killing the baby. this is so they cant legally be prosecuted for murder. and if you're thinking of the chemical approach, where they poison the baby and unattach from the uterus and then its expelled - yea thats only used up to nine weeks, and even then, not as often as the vaccum and suction method... and as you yourself said that most are performed from 8-20 weeks, that gives them one week to do that. nearly every operation there after, is used by literally tearing the babies apart. and if you really dont believe me, look at all the evidence on the internet - you cant deny pictures of little arms and crushed skulls pulled from abortion clinic dumpsters. this is an excellent website for nasty pictures - <a href="http://www.mttu.com/abort-pics/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.mttu.com/abort-pics/index.html</a> - and after looking at these, can you tell me that your ok with any living thing going through...human, fetus, animal...its unnecessary and gross - no matter what you say, you cant deny the fact think that this is an awesome procedure that should most definitely be continued...</p>
<p><strong><em>no matter what you say, you cant deny the facts, and say that this is an awesome procedure that should most definitely be continued...</em></strong>*</p>
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this is an excellent website for nasty pictures - <a href="http://www.mttu.com/abort-pics/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.mttu.com/abort-pics/index.html</a> - and after looking at these, can you tell me that your ok with any living thing going through...human, fetus, animal...its unnecessary and gross - no matter what you say, you cant deny the fact think that this is an awesome procedure that should most definitely be continued...
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</p>
<p>Oh yeah, propaganda sites. The best place in the world to form opinions on a serious issue.</p>
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<strong><em>no matter what you say, you cant deny the facts, and say that this is an awesome procedure that should most definitely be continued...</em></strong>*
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</p>
<p>I wasn't aware anyone was saying it was.</p>
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and again where does it say that a baby in the womb has no rights? you dont believe it has any rights, but no where does it say it doesnt. and i know, you're saying it never says they do have rights either, but unless we know for a fact that its not considered a us citizen you cant say otherwise. you have to give it the benefit of the doubt - protect the innocent who cant protect themselves.
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<p>Nice try. You see, I have this piece of paper. I crumpled it up and trashed it, and it got sent to an incinerator [insert link here with gruesome pictures of burning, charred papers]. It doesn't say anywhere that the piece of paper had nor rights, so we should give it the benefit of the doubt and assume it is an American citizen. Right?</p>
<p>Scarletleavy...shut up u sound so stupid...visit this website <a href="http://www.abortiontruth.com%5B/url%5D">www.abortiontruth.com</a> and click pictures then tell me what u think of abortion</p>
<p>Oh wow. Dead baby pics. Way to try and convert people.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Scarletleavy...shut up u sound so stupid...visit this website <a href="http://www.abortiontruth.com%5B/url%5D">www.abortiontruth.com</a> and click pictures then tell me what u think of abortion
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</p>
<p>I'm not Scarletleavy, but done and done. My opinions haven't changed. Propaganda rarely affects me. It wouldn't be terribly difficult for me to get some pictures of babies born in broken homes because their mothers insisted on having them. I could probably find a few shot dead as well.</p>
<p>By the way, has anyone ever told you that insulting people rarely makes you look convincing?</p>
<p>1)people need to see the pictures...if they dont they'll be uneducated about it like you seem to be. i dont know if you all just think an abortion is a day in the park or what, but you dont seem to care what it does to the baby or its mother. propaganda may not be ideal, but it exists for a reason - it works. and it shows the truth. people cant just pull pictures like this out of their butt. they're real. unless you can pull things out of yours...in which case i commend you on such a talent.
2)you may not be saying the exact words but you are definitely implying that its an awesome procedure, and you obviously believe that it should be continued or else you wouldnt be arguing with me.
3)yea nice try with the stupid paper comment. last time i checked paper has no brain, it has no pain feeling, it has no life - if it does otherwise, feel free to give me proof. unlike you, i can give you plenty of findings that show that a baby is alive. and if you dont think its alive you're crazy. you dont have to agree with me about it being a baby...or even if it has rights...but you cant deny its alive.</p>
<p>and rainbow...thank you for agreeing that this is a baby! i fully appreciate that!. and as for the pictures...yea people should know what abortion really does and not that women go in and come out with nothing being done in between. have you ever been to a concentration camp, or seen pictures of them and the many people killed there?... yea you cant say that those pictures of hundreds of people laying in holes, stripped of their dignity because people thought they were nuisances...that they didnt deserve to live didnt affect you at all. and if they really had no affect on you, how? please tell me, cause if i had the power to ignore things like that it'd be amazing. and if they did affect you and how you view concentration camps in general, dont tell me that pictures of babies that have been torn apart wont change the way at least one person thinks about abortion. and you dont have to agree with me...you just have to realize the truth...</p>
<p>tetrahedron...has anyone ever told you that trying to argue something that you obviously have feelings for, but seemingly no real interest in, or at least not fully educated in also is rarely convincing. if you can provide concrete truth for your opinion go ahead. but pictures are in fact concrete truth...at least ones like these that you know havent been changed. you cant deny the pictures..you cant deny what abortions really do.</p>
<p>
[quote]
3)yea nice try with the stupid paper comment. last time i checked paper has no brain, it has no pain feeling, it has no life - if it does otherwise, feel free to give me proof. unlike you, i can give you plenty of findings that show that a baby is alive. and if you dont think its alive you're crazy. you dont have to agree with me about it being a baby...or even if it has rights...but you cant deny its alive.
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<p>yeah...so my friend ran over a squirrel the other day. it doesn't say anywhere that this squirrel (with a brain, a sense of pain, a life, children) is not an American citizen. I mean, he/she was indeed born on American soil. Maybe my friend should be prosecuted for murder or at least unintentional slaughter....</p>
<p>Actually, I think pictures of roadkill would be a decent use of propaganda to convince people to consider the slaughter of cute furry animals a crime. propaganda does work you know. :|</p>
<p>You have yet to prove why signs of life and a disgusting procedure that tears apart the body render a fetus a full human being worthy of full rights.</p>
<p>uhh...anyway; out of curiosity, what do you think about the day-after pill?</p>
<p>ok 1)yea paper is a little different than squirrels...i do feel bad for squirrels. it sucks that they end up as roadkill...on the other hand, i was just trying to use the simplest way to explain the difference between paper and a baby. i thought they typically taught that in school, but maybe i'm wrong.
the thing with the squirrel is the fact that it is an animal. if you would like to call animals us citizens, then yes she should prosecuted for murder. but thats not likely. and if you would like to consider human offspring to be animals, which would make all of us animals, lets disregard everything, and just make the whole world one big hunting ground. cause if you think squirrels are the same as fetuses, you would definitely be up for being going around, hunting for you.
i was using propaganda to show the truth about abortions. not necessarily to prove that the constitution says abortion's a crime...just to show people what abortions really do. people arent educated on this topic, at least not very well. so using proganda to show that killing squirrels is a crime isnt the same as showing people what abortions really do. one is complete nonsense...the other, a complete fact about what really happens. the pictures arent there to change your views about abortion as a whole and whether it should happen...they're there in order to show you what really happens. and primarily they were there to prove to scarletleavy that abortion doctors do for a fact pull babies apart during an abortion.
a baby is worthy of rights (i never said full rights- just the right to life - thats one, singular right) for the mere fact that it is human and its never not been guaranteed rights. if it has been denied the right to life, other than the current legality of abortion, i would like to know when and how, esp if you can prove that the constitution give people the right to kill their children. you have to give the baby rights due to benefit of the doubt...its the innocent one in all of this...and unless you can prove beyond all reasonable doubt that the fetus isnt guaranteed the right to life, shouldnt you give the innocent, aka the fetus, aka the baby, aka a human, someone's child, the benefit of the doubt?</p>
<p>
[quote]
)people need to see the pictures...if they dont they'll be uneducated about it like you seem to be. i dont know if you all just think an abortion is a day in the park or what, but you dont seem to care what it does to the baby or its mother.
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</p>
<p>They'll be uneducated about what, exactly? Is anyone here claiming that abortion is a day in the park? It does nothing to the baby, since there is no baby born at the time.</p>
<p>
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propaganda may not be ideal, but it exists for a reason - it works. and it shows the truth.
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</p>
<p>Do you know what propaganda is?</p>
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eople cant just pull pictures like this out of their butt. they're real. unless you can pull things out of yours...in which case i commend you on such a talent.
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<p>I thank you, but I have no such talent. On the other hand, perhaps you should send those praises over to your website's creators?</p>
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you may not be saying the exact words but you are definitely implying that its an awesome procedure, and you obviously believe that it should be continued or else you wouldnt be arguing with me.
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<p>Stop putting words into my mouth. Did I say it's an awesome procedure? Please, if I'm saying it with different words, quote me. That it should be continued - no one here is forcing abortion onto anyone. If no abortions ever happen again, I'm no less happy. We're arguing about choice. This is something you seem to fail to understand - no one is saying hey, let's have all the pregnant women get abortions. We argue that there is the choice.</p>
<p>
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)yea nice try with the stupid paper comment.
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<p>Based on what you wrote above (which included nothing of what you say now, my comment was completely accurate. If you want to edit your argument to make it more clear, feel free to do so, but don't insult me for not reading your mind.</p>
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but you cant deny its alive.
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</p>
<p>It's alive as part of the mother. In and of itself, until birth, it isn't a living being.</p>
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have you ever been to a concentration camp, or seen pictures of them and the many people killed there?..
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<p>What does this have to do with anything? Are you trying to compare abortion to the Holocaust?</p>
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tetrahedron...has anyone ever told you that trying to argue something that you obviously have feelings for, but seemingly no real interest in, or at least not fully educated in also is rarely convincing.
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<p>If I have feelings for it, how do I have no real interest in it? Show me, also, what I have said that is not "fully educated" or to you, "rarely convincing."</p>
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you cant deny what abortions really do.
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</p>
<p>What exactly am I denying?</p>
<p>The people on this website who are pro abortion arent human. You are crazy</p>
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The people on this website who are pro abortion(murdering a baby) arent humane.
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<p>Are you going to justify that, or just make the claim outright? By the way, no one is mudering a baby. Learn the distinction.</p>
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Get your facts right.
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<p>Any facts we don't have right you'd like to point out?</p>
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Regardless what u believe in, it is wrong.
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<p>I'm glad you make such decisions for all of us.</p>
<p>Abortion is murder</p>
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.just to show people what abortions really do. people arent educated on this topic, at least not very well
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<p>Anyone out there who doesn't know what abortions do? I haven't noticed one person who has posted so far who doesn't know what abortions "really" do.</p>
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[quote]
a baby is worthy of rights (i never said full rights- just the right to life - thats one, singular right) for the mere fact that it is human and its never not been guaranteed rights.
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<p>An embryo, or fetus, doesn't have the status of human until birth. From your perspective, a sperm, a fertilized egg, a blastula, etc... are all "human" and worthy of rights. </p>
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[quote]
esp if you can prove that the constitution give people the right to kill their children
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<p>Again, you're trying to blur the line between before birth and after.</p>
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[quote]
you have to give the baby rights due to benefit of the doubt...its the innocent one in all of this..
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<p>What exactly is this argument about? I assume the aforementioned squirrel, as innocent, also deserves benefit of the doubt?</p>
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[quote]
shouldnt you give the innocent, aka the fetus, aka the baby, aka a human, someone's child, the benefit of the doubt?
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</p>
<p>Repeatedly using "benefit of the doubt" wrongly doesn't do much for us.</p>
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How is abortion not murdering a baby...tetra
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<p>Easy enough. Babies have been born. Abortions don't deal with that.</p>
<p>The fetus has rights</p>