Does this seem FAIR to you?

<p>I think it sucks. Maybe after the whole admissions process is over I'll be able to form a more coherent opinion about AA, but for now I'm just bitter about it. It's true that a lot of bad high schools are inner city high schools with mostly black students, but a lot of white kids go to crappy high schools too and are lucky to get even mediocre SAT scores. I got to a crappy public schools and worked hard to get the SAT score I wanted. I also think it's degrading. It's true that you'll never know if you were admitted based on your race, but if I were a minority student admitted to a top school with sub-par SAT scores I'd question it. I think what makes me the most angry is what sugarsweet said about the scholarships. I use to be a supporter of AA, but there has to be another way.</p>

<p>Anyone else still undecided over AA?</p>

<p>@southzezpdot, what about blacks that are economically well off?</p>

<p>I persoanlly feel like this is a multi-faceted problem, and thouhg i have one strong view, theres no real simple solution to AA.</p>

<p>^Don't act like everyone has the same opportunities. I don't agree with race-based affirmative action, but I think there should be some correcting for circumstances. If there is going to be an "affirmative action" system, it should be based on either income or school conditions, preferably the latter (though it would be more difficult). I think doing it this way would help disadvantaged people actually get ahead a lot more than affirmative action would. An asian or white student in a terrible inner-city school is just as disadvantaged as a black student in the same school is. The only type of equality a true meritocracy can hope for is equality of opportunity, and I think that has to start with schools.</p>

<p>
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Like I've said in another thread, it's socially ok to be racist against white people. Affirmative action is a joke. Complete double standard.

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</p>

<p>Come on. The people that affirmative action actually hurts is Asians. It really has little or no effect on white people.</p>

<p>"Princeton University researchers have found that ignoring race in elite college admissions would result in sharp declines in the numbers of African Americans and Hispanics accepted with little gain for white students."</p>

<p>-<a href="http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/78Q19/index.xml?section=newsreleases"&gt;http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/78Q19/index.xml?section=newsreleases&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>One idea that most people neglect in the AA arguments is the actual idea of diversity. If you were a prestigious university, you of course want the best stats possible, but you do not want your student body to be a uniform group of people. By allowing more URMs, colleges give URMs a chance to be with their own kind without being alone.</p>

<p>Don't look for or expect fairness in college admissions, especially at the privates. Fairness is not part of their consideration, and your idea of fair wouldn't match theirs anyway. Some applicants want those "most qualified" to be admitted, but there's little agree on what that means.</p>

<p>Private selective colleges have one overriding admission criterion: They admit those they want the most. Each school has different wants and needs, and they won't be clear about them, lest applicants try to parrot what they think schools want to hear.</p>

<p>It's relatively easy to identify schools that consider race in their admissions decisions. Most publics don't. For privates, google a school's "common data set" and look at Section C7. The line "Racial/ethnic status" will have one of these columns checked: "Very Important, Important, Considered, Not Considered." You can vote against AA if you want by not applying to schools that consider it.</p>

<p>Be glad we wave so many college choices, with something for everyone.</p>

<p>To a certain extent I agree with Affirmative action but I also think that the economic status of ORMs should be at the forefront of their admissions process.</p>

<p>It's true</p>

<p>Just because more White and Asian people try in school doesn't mean that they should be hindered for their achievements. Why don't the other races try equally as hard, but by me saying this it makes me sound like a racist.</p>

<p>Lets put these stats out. </p>

<p>Black households had the lowest median income in 2004 ($30,134) among race groups. Asian households had the highest median income ($57,518). The median income for non-Hispanic white households was $48,977. Median income for Hispanic households was $34,241.</p>

<p>In 2004, the poverty rate declined for Asians (9.8 percent in 2004, down from 11.8 percent in 2003), remained unchanged for Hispanics (21.9 percent) and blacks (24.7 percent) and rose for non-Hispanic whites (8.6 percent in 2004, up from 8.2 percent in 2003). </p>

<p>US</a> Census Press Releases</p>

<p>It is very ludacris to say its "fair" to make things equal for all college applicants ESPECIALLY when we talk about standardized test grades. Its really not even a race thing. It's more of a money issue than anything I agree. If your from a low income family it doesn't matter what race you are your going to be in a disadvantage. But lets come to the facts who happen to be the poorest race? Who happen to be the most impoverished? </p>

<p>And to those who think just because your a minority student means you are going to get in it is far from the truth. You honestly think that top schools are going to admit someone because based on race alone? That's just stupidity to believe that. Sure there standards are going to be lower that doesn't mean any black or Spanish kid will be accepted because they have a diploma. </p>

<p>Honestly I think a lot of this stigma against AA especially on the subject of colleges is because a lot of people here did not get into their dream college. From the race posts Ive read I've seen plenty of "well if i was black/spanish i would of got in". How can you guys claim you are college bound people and be that dumb. Obviously this is just another case of people who are book smart but lake common sense.</p>

<p>If many URMs attend inner-city public schools, using finances as a factor in admissions would better accomplish what AA is trying to do, as there are plenty of wealth URMs who use their status to their advantage.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Black households had the lowest median income in 2004 ($30,134) among race groups. Asian households had the highest median income ($57,518). The median income for non-Hispanic white households was $48,977. Median income for Hispanic households was $34,241.</p>

<p>In 2004, the poverty rate declined for Asians (9.8 percent in 2004, down from 11.8 percent in 2003), remained unchanged for Hispanics (21.9 percent) and blacks (24.7 percent) and rose for non-Hispanic whites (8.6 percent in 2004, up from 8.2 percent in 2003).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Umm maybe Asians worked harder then the other minorities? Is that the their fault? Didn't Asians also have deal with hardships? Last time I checked, Hispanics and Blacks weren't the only ones that went through hardships, Whites and Asians did too.</p>

<p>Yes, that would be the most fair option. The problem is, privates are not going to able to deal with 1% African American and Hispanic.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Honestly I think a lot of this stigma against AA especially on the subject of colleges is because a lot of people here did not get into their dream college. From the race posts Ive read I've seen plenty of "well if i was black/spanish i would of got in". How can you guys claim you are college bound people and be that dumb. Obviously this is just another case of people who are book smart but lake common sense.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I haven't applied to any colleges but i just checked UVa's common data sheet and guess what? Racial/Ethnic is "very important"</p>

<p>Take a look for yourself UVa</a> CDS - C. First-time, First-year Admission</p>

<p>
[quote]
Umm maybe Asians worked harder then the other minorities? Is that the their fault? Didn't Asians also have deal with hardships? Last time I checked, Hispanics and Blacks weren't the only ones that went through hardships, Whites and Asians did too.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Obviously EVERYONE goes through hardships. Asians weren't just only the highest paid minorities but the highest paid race group period. Let me explain something to you the more money you have the more choices you are possible to have. The more possibilities for high schools, more possibilities for SAT tutoring, and just about anything in life. Sure the Asian community has become VERY competitive but can you really compare the hardships to the Hispanic and black communities to those of the Asian community? And hard working? What do you mean by that do you honestly believe that there is a race that is more hard working than the other? That obviously cant be a serious statement.</p>

<p>It's been harder historically for blacks and hispanics and other minorities to make it. But I would guess it would be hard for an Asian too but they seemed to have overcame their issues mostly through education.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Its really not even a race thing. It's more of a money issue than anything I agree. If your from a low income family it doesn't matter what race you are your going to be in a disadvantage. But lets come to the facts who happen to be the poorest race? Who happen to be the most impoverished?

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</p>

<p>Then why can't we base AA off of social economic issues instead of the average income for each race?</p>

<p>we're obviously going to sort out an answer in this thread</p>

<p>[clarence thomas is against it Q.E.D]</p>

<p>I really don't want to get in the middle of this argument (esp since it comes up every two threads on this site), but I think AA is almost a sign of our desperation. Not being an URM myself, I understand how people are upset by this "reverse discrimination", and I know that its at time unfair to those who really worked hard, who might be ORMs.</p>

<p>But honestly, we are desperate. Not that there aren't plenty of qualified URMs out there; there are tons of really determined and accomplished people - race doesn't matter in any of that. But when there are thousands of kids in inner city schools, who have zero -access to the research opportunities at X university or the summer program in Antarctica studying penguins that many a rich brat on this site has, than it is a sign that we have to have some measure in place to protect them. And, it just so happens that a lot of those kids are under-represented minorities.</p>

<p>So I don't know wether I'm for AA or against it. But I think that rather than throwing money at programs like this where the yield doesn't perfectly match the cost, I think we should instead invest in those inner city schools that give children no opportunities in the first place. It's almost like people are putting effort in all the wrong places; rather than trying so hard to get a minority face on your college brochure, why don't you fund the school that gives kids no opportunities to get into your university in the first place.</p>

<p>What's so great about diversity? It seems pretty overrated to me.</p>

<p>I think AA was partly designed to bring different cultures onto campus so that the school's students wouldn't have a myopic view of the world. In that sense, it's failed. How many 1/4 or 1/8 URMs who have about as much knowledge about their culture as the white kids next check the little box that says "Hispanic" or "Native American" just for the admissions boost? Tons.</p>