<p>Roman pretty much sums it up right.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And lots of URM agree with me. I don't think a lot of white people get what it feels like to always be a tiny minority. In a ton of my AP classes, there are only 5 black students in a class of 25 to 30. I was in an 8th and 9th grade Honors program where there were 7 black people out of 80. Most whites will never, ever find themselves in such a situation, and usually, when ones I know do, they're incredibly uncomfortable.
[/quote]
I went to a lot of AP Classes with a majority of Jews, and I never felt uncomfortable despite the fact that I am not a Jew. Right now I am living in a dorm floor that seems to have a shortage of hispanics (which I am); the great majority of people seem to be white. And I don't mind that I live, room, and commingle with people who look different than me. And do you know why?</p>
<p>BECAUSE I AM NOT A FREAKING RACIST IS WHY.</p>
<p>Jesus, if a white guy did not want to attend a class of mostly black people he would be called a racist, but when a black guy does not want to attend a class dominated by whites an asians we should "increase diversity" by kicking a few whites and asians to make room for more blacks? Anybody who doesn't sign up for classes or attend a college because of race ratio deserves what they are missing.</p>
<p>I agree Jamie. In fact, at my school, my cousin is in her 8th grade class..she is one of 3 white girls. There are about 10/40 people in that grade that are white. My class is the most white class probably, and we have maybe 60 percent white in my class.</p>
<p>I'm never in a classroom that is almost exactly half black.</p>
<p>Once again, the problem here is the fact that many people here aren't seeing it from the other side. There's a lot of "I am a minority, and I succeeded, therefore everyone can." But believe it or not, not everyone is the same! Jamie, have you grown up around many Jewish people in your life? Then it's probably something you grew up with, that you're used to. Believe it or not, there are some neighborhoods that are literally 99% Hispanic or 99% Black or 99% White. Try taking people from these sorts of backgrounds and throw them into somewhere in which they're one of a small percentage of their own kind.</p>
<p>Imagine a white kid at an HBCU, even though he knows nothing about black culture.
Imagine a black kid at Yale, even though he's only met one white person in his own life.
Imagine a Hispanic kid at Harvard, even though he, too, has only met one white person in your life.</p>
<p>It's called a comfort zone. Everyone has one. It's what you're used to. But what college is about is breaking that comfort zone. If everyone looked the same, what comfort zone is there to break? Affirmative action is good because it breaks racial boundaries and opens people up. The main purpose of the university is to educate, and sometimes the best way to learn is experience. I mean, what can you learn about black people by reading a chapter of Black Like Me compared to actually being friends with one? </p>
<p>If you feel that strongly about the fact that it's "not fair", then maybe you're one of the square reasons why affirmative action needs to stay. Whichever university you go to, I put forward the challenge to you to approach a minority student from a low-income background and give him your whole sphiel about why he shouldn't be here because there's some white or Asian kid that "worked harder" than him and he took his place. I dare you :).</p>
<p>response to "have any of you guys ever been to a mostly black school? youd be lucky to crack 1100 in the SAT working your ass off in school. Colleges know black highschools or those in inner cities are inferior to suburban high schools. Why act as if they are equal?"</p>
<p>Maybe black parents need to sit thier kids down and tell them to do thier homework. Asian parents always have and WOW!! Hispanic parents have put the petal to the metal as well. </p>
<p>Take a look at the College Board AP report just posted by Dave Berry on CC main page. </p>
<p>Hispanic students AP participation has pulled statistically even with Caucasians even though average income and poverty levels have stayed the same. Urban Hispanic HS are not joy either. If Hispanics can do it, so can blacks. Cut the whining and do your homework.</p>
<p>Hmm...I'm sure inner-city black parents would if they didn't have to work two jobs just to put food on the table. Not to mention in many families there are no fathers, so the mother is the sole breadwinner. </p>
<p>So if there's no parent at home, and you're going home at 3, and you're home alone...</p>
<p>Either way, there's so many more layers to it than many are realizing. Thankfully there are organizations like the Boys and Girls Club to motivate kids</p>
<p>
[quote]
In fact, at my school, my cousin is in her 8th grade class..she is one of 3 white girls. There are about 10/40 people in that grade that are white. My class is the most white class probably, and we have maybe 60 percent white in my class.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's not particularly rare. My school is 10% white and less than 10% Asian. It's about 80% black/hispanic.</p>
<p>There are other schools in LA that are literally 99% hispanic or 90+% black. I've seen racial breakdowns that have less than 5 white kids in the entire school ... out of 5,000.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I went to a lot of AP Classes with a majority of Jews, and I never felt uncomfortable despite the fact that I am not a Jew. Right now I am living in a dorm floor that seems to have a shortage of hispanics (which I am); the great majority of people seem to be white. And I don't mind that I live, room, and commingle with people who look different than me. And do you know why?</p>
<p>BECAUSE I AM NOT A FREAKING RACIST IS WHY.</p>
<p>Jesus, if a white guy did not want to attend a class of mostly black people he would be called a racist, but when a black guy does not want to attend a class dominated by whites an asians we should "increase diversity" by kicking a few whites and asians to make room for more blacks? Anybody who doesn't sign up for classes or attend a college because of race ratio deserves what they are missing.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Um, it's not racist to want to live in a diverse environment.
Do you really want to be at a school that's 99% any ethnicity or race? I don't want to go to a school that's 99% my race or any other. I don't have a problem attending a class dominated by whites. My classes are ans should be mostly white, because I live in a country where the majority of the population is mostly white. But the population isn't 99% white, or anywhere near that. Why would I want to live in such an artificial white-washed environment? Why would anyone? The only reason I could think is that, if the person is of another race, he or she is self-hating, and if the person is of the same race, he or she can't handle being around people of other races. And as to the opposite, a school that has a very high percentage of blacks, I wouldn't want to be there either. It's unnatural and unrealistic.</p>
<p>And it could get very ghetto, as my school.</p>
<p>I can see how colleges want to brag about their grand diversity to show that they aren't racist, or whatever, but I think it's taking it to the extreme where they actually ARE being racist. As much I think we white people kind of deserve a taste of our own medicine, I just think judging based on race is completely stupid. I mean, I can see giving priority to admitting people from all over the world or country, cause that actually will bring diversity to a school and bring lots of cool experiences and viewpoints to the student body. But when it gets down to skin color, WHO CARES? I don't care about that at all.</p>
<p>Also, it's stupid how they're practically punishing Asians for being smart.</p>
<p>Well as the far left says..we are only one race. So why the need for diversity by color.</p>
<p>Race, as a societal construct, exists. It has a huge influence on where people live, with whom they associate, how they seem themselves and the world around them, and on, and on. Yes, genetically, there's only one human race, but we have never operated in that way and we probably never will. There's no real reason to deny race. It's better to be comfortable with it.
charizzle, when schools ask you "are you asian?" they're asking about a lot more than the color of your skin. Eg: African American is an ethnicity, not a race. Most schools don't ask for race, they ask for ethnicity, which relates to culture. It's the fastest way of guaranteeing that people come from a diverse array of backgrounds. Please don't give me examples of this black or white or Hispanic person who doesn't match up with the culture of his or her ethnic group. Most of my life doesn't match up with the culture of my ethnic group, but it doesn't matter. People like me are outliers. Culture, race, and ethnicity are greatly related.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Jamie, have you grown up around many Jewish people in your life? Then it's probably something you grew up with, that you're used to. Believe it or not, there are some neighborhoods that are literally 99% Hispanic or 99% Black or 99% White. Try taking people from these sorts of backgrounds and throw them into somewhere in which they're one of a small percentage of their own kind.
[/quote]
No, I did not. In fact, I grew up in Lima, Peru, where Jews aren't that prominent, and moved to the U.S. when I was 10. Even then, I was never in an environment with a majority of Jewish people until my ap classes in high school. And as a child growing up in Lima, I saw pretty much nothing but other hispanics (and the occasional black or asian).</p>
<p>
[quote]
The main purpose of the university is to educate, and sometimes the best way to learn is experience. I mean, what can you learn about black people by reading a chapter of Black Like Me compared to actually being friends with one?
[/quote]
I came to my university to study engineering and mathematics, not Diversity 101. Actually I think you could learn much more from Black Like Me or other nonfiction books than from being friends with a black person; unless you become VERY good friends chances are your friend isn't going to tell you his life story in such a way you can draw meaningful ideas from it. What can I learn from a black kid by being his/her friend? Probably nothing I couldn't have learned from a white kid with similar economical circumstances.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you feel that strongly about the fact that it's "not fair", then maybe you're one of the square reasons why affirmative action needs to stay. Whichever university you go to, I put forward the challenge to you to approach a minority student from a low-income background and give him your whole sphiel about why he shouldn't be here because there's some white or Asian kid that "worked harder" than him and he took his place. I dare you
[/quote]
I am sorry, but that is retarded. First of all, I would need to find a minority student who had low scores/extracurriculars (because not all minorities got in through affirmative action; some of them [like me] earned it). The only way to get this information would be to ask it, which would be considered rude. Now, assuming s/he hasn't blown me off for being some rude stranger who asks for a summary of their academic life at random, I now have to tell them that they don't belong in the university. This is something to which anybody would take offense regardless of whether it is true or not, and seems like a good way to get into a fight or get campus police called on me, both of which I find undesirable outcomes.</p>
<p>Would you be willing to find a kid who got rejected from their dream school despite good stats and tell him/her that s/he doesn't deserve to attend anyways because the person that got their spot will add "diversity" to the college and encourage more blacks and hispanics to go? I doubt it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Um, it's not racist to want to live in a diverse environment.
[/quote]
Yes it is, because the only difference between a diverse environment and a non-diverse environment is the race composition of the people involved. That means one wants to live on an environment based on the races of the people on that environment, and would be uncomfortable living in another (non-diverse) environment because of the races on that environment. Therefore, that is racist.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Do you really want to be at a school that's 99% any ethnicity or race? I don't want to go to a school that's 99% my race or any other. I don't have a problem attending a class dominated by whites. My classes are ans should be mostly white, because I live in a country where the majority of the population is mostly white. But the population isn't 99% white, or anywhere near that. Why would I want to live in such an artificial white-washed environment? Why would anyone?
[/quote]
The question isn't why would you want to live in an environment that is 99% any race. The question is why wouldn't you want to. Have you considered that when some people look at a group of university students which is something like, oh, I don't know, 90% white/asian and 5% black and 5% hispanic (invented numbers, but probably closer to what would happen without affirmative action than the ridiculous 99% claim), maybe, just maybe, they don't see an over representation of some races and underrepresentation of others, but instead just see a group of young and willing minds ready to learn and excel?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well as the far left says..we are only one race. So why the need for diversity by color.
[/quote]
So true, (wo)man. As</a> Maddox said, true diversity doesn't come from people who look different.</p>
<p>I am going to preface my post to say that I am a Japanese-American.</p>
<p>It's difficult to define what "merit" is, though. Most schools in the nation base their admissions on a very simple academic cut-off system, but those schools that have the luxury of basing their admissions off of a holistic process are absolutely justified in judging for themselves what factors will make for the most engaging student body.</p>
<p>I think of it this way: we often say that colleges try to create a well-rounded student body, not the most well-rounded student. I think we all agree that it is fair that a college will try maintain a ROUGH balance of athletes to singers to artists to community service leaders to academic powerhouses etc etc etc. Can anyone say that being the quarter back on a state champion football team is more valuable than being a member of the chamber choir that won the state competition? The question can be heavily and heatedly debated, but the bottom line is that I think it's pretty universally accepted that a musical prodigy is "worth" as much in college admissions as an athletic prodigy.</p>
<p>I feel strongly that a college trying to keep a ROUGH balance of Asians to Whites to Hispanics to blacks is just as legitimate as one that is trying to balance its athletes to musicians. I understand that we can't change race. I am born Japanese and will never be able to change that, but regardless of how my college admissions went/will go this spring, I will never be bitter over an acceptance because I am an "over-represented minority." Affirmative action is fair.</p>
<p>"I should not be punished because my parents are white and his are black!"</p>
<p>"I should not be punished because I chose to play the violin when I was 5 years old and he chose to play the [debatably rarer, more sought after] viola!"</p>
<p>I will start a wildfire by saying this, but I don't think those two statements are all that different.</p>
<p>So it's OK for Asians to get punished for trying hard in school, but on the other hand people say its OK for Blacks and Hispanics to get a boost for not trying as hard as the other kid. </p>
<p>All the people that are defending AA are making Black and Hispanic people look dumb, poor, lazy, and also saying Black and Hispanic parents don't care about their kids future. People are saying college acceptance isn't fair? Then its equally OK to say life isn't fair.</p>
<p>If I were an alien that has never been to earth and I read this whole thread, that's the kind of opinion I would form on the 2 races.</p>
<p>Hmm....so since when do high test scores and grades determine raw intelligence? That those who don't score well on tests are "dumb" and should be punished to be like everyone else. </p>
<p>Everyone has a gift to offer the world. Everyone. Even in the smallest of ways. If I were a college admissions officer, I wouldn't care for crap how high you scored on the test, if you have no personality then I'm not picking you. If you feel entitled to being at my campus because you scored so high a test, then you don't deserve to be at my school. I want people with passion, zest for life, that really want to make something of themselves. </p>
<p>So imagine this scenario: You are placed before your desk, two applications.</p>
<p>One is a girl who wants to escape a life of poverty and her brother got killed when she was 16. She's determined to make something better of herself because she's sick of everything and wants something better. Her mother can't speak English very well, so the girl had to do much of it on her own. </p>
<p>Two is a girl who lives in a well-off girl who lives in the suburbs and does everything her mother tells her or because her paid counselors say it's "good for colleges". She follows the directions given to her and does as she is well-told. She's even applying to the school because her mom told her it's a "good school".</p>
<p>Think about it. Who would you really want to represent your campus, with or without good grades?</p>
<p>Lets face it. Life isn't fair. Big deal. So while you're busy stressing about it's not fair grades-wise, there's some kid outside making a strong case for themselves doing an EC that they are proud of. So be it!</p>
<p>^^ You're the only person, thus far, who seems to have a clue.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Hmm....so since when do high test scores and grades determine raw intelligence? That those who don't score well on tests are "dumb" and should be punished to be like everyone else.</p>
<p>Everyone has a gift to offer the world. Everyone. Even in the smallest of ways. If I were a college admissions officer, I wouldn't care for crap how high you scored on the test, if you have no personality then I'm not picking you. If you feel entitled to being at my campus because you scored so high a test, then you don't deserve to be at my school. I want people with passion, zest for life, that really want to make something of themselves.</p>
<p>So imagine this scenario: You are placed before your desk, two applications.</p>
<p>One is a girl who wants to escape a life of poverty and her brother got killed when she was 16. She's determined to make something better of herself because she's sick of everything and wants something better. Her mother can't speak English very well, so the girl had to do much of it on her own.</p>
<p>Two is a girl who lives in a well-off girl who lives in the suburbs and does everything her mother tells her or because her paid counselors say it's "good for colleges". She follows the directions given to her and does as she is well-told. She's even applying to the school because her mom told her it's a "good school".</p>
<p>Think about it. Who would you really want to represent your campus, with or without good grades?</p>
<p>Lets face it. Life isn't fair. Big deal. So while you're busy stressing about it's not fair grades-wise, there's some kid outside making a strong case for themselves doing an EC that they are proud of. So be it!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well in that case, why don't we just let anyone that's struggled into college! Hell lets go further and let them into medical school, sure they might not have the knowledge to save peoples lives, but they struggled in life! Yay!</p>
<p>And out of the 2 girls, I would pick the one that has higher test scores because shes more likely to succeed in college then a person who "struggled" unless she got better grades, then id pick her.</p>
<p>bump10char</p>