<p>"The</a> Incredibles" </p>
<p>"In September, the Commission on the Future of Higher Education released a report on how ill-prepared high school graduates are for college, citing statistics like this one: 40 percent of college students take remedial courses." </p>
<p>How is it at the high school in your town?</p>
<p>I just finished reading the article in today's paper. It certainly rang true for my daughter's school -- and is very depressing. At least some are beginning to take action. I noted the upper school principal at one Philadelphia private school admitting 'no one wants to be first' to scale back -- but several schools in the area, including my d's, recently got rid of all AP courses. We hear the same lines quoted in the article -- that graduates come back saying high school was harder than college. At least d's college guidance counselor did admit to me this year that those comments prompted the administration to reconsider just what high school is supposed to be about.</p>
<p>Yes it rang true for my daughters school also (not the local hi but a state math & science school). She has a much heavier load this semester than any college student I know. this part especially reflects what I have been thinking:
[quote]
although, Dr. Rhodes adds, **sometimes students are so burned-out after high school **they don?t mind repeating material. They can decompress while getting an easy A.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm worried the repeating materials will be boring for her.. But the burned out certainly applies.</p>
<p>My daughter is in an IB program. Graduates of this program routinely come back and report that college is easier than high school.</p>
<p>I wonder, though, whether changes might be coming. If an increasing proportion of the students at top colleges come from very rigorous high school programs, perhaps the colleges will increase the rigor of their freshman/sophomore curricula to compensate. In that case, of course, the losers would be kids from rural or low-income areas who didn't have a chance to take advantage of souped-up high schools.</p>
<p>My high school (fairly good, but not amazing, suburban public school) offered as many APs as possible, without regards to whether the teachers were qualified. I've taken several classes in college where I sort of know the material, but not completely, because the corresponding AP course wasn't particularly well taught. While repeating material because of a bad teacher isn't a great situation, it meant that while I might have taken a bunch of APs in high school, some of them were pretty easy, so I didn't get as burnt out as I could have.</p>
<p>On the other end of the spectrum, my school used to offer three levels of classes: academic, advanced, and honors/AP. Somewhere along the line someone decided that everyone is above average, and got rid of all 'academic' classes. It's no wonder that so many students have to take remedial classes- there is no place for basic skills to be taught.</p>
<p>My daughter goes to a high school that is totally different from "The Incredibles." It is small, with a budget cut to the bone so there are almost no electives and a handful of APs. (Two more electives are being cut next year.) She's a hard worker, and I suspect that when she goes to college she's going to have to work very hard to survive. I am really glad that this article pointed out the dichotomy between these rigorous schools and all the students who arrive at college unprepared. It does concern me that many of her classmates next year will be talking about how easy college is while she may have a totally different perspective. OTOH, she's had a great time in high school, being able to balance school, extracurriculars and a social life -- and had plenty of time to just relax. </p>
<p>Acknowledging this huge schism in American education is important. How we deal with it is the next question.</p>
<p>my son attended a high school with the most APs offered in the state. Some kids ended up with close to 20 courses at graduation! My son took 8 - including some difficult ones like AP Physics 2, Ap Calc and AP History and English classes. Did well but had to work VERY hard to keep up. Senior year was particularly tough.
Now that's he's in college, he reports it's easier than high school. My family members think that means the college is a poor match or that he's choosing easy courses. We disagree. He attends a good state U and took 3 honors level courses last year (these classes are smaller and require more work). Perhaps it would be more difficult at an Ivy - I'm not sure - especially after reading this article. In any case, I've stopped mentioning the whole thing with family and friends. Since he attends a state school, everyone automatically assumes it's a cakewalk. No need to feed the fire.<br>
Things were different when I went to college. It was a big jump up in difficulty and we were shocked with Cs and Ds in freshman year when we put forth high school level efforts. Then again, I didn't work hard at all in hs - so my preparation was lacking. I figured it out soon enough but it was an adjustment. Seems like the adjustment is in reverse now! - for some kids anyway...</p>
<p>
[quote]
My daughter is in an IB program. Graduates of this program routinely come back and report that college is easier than high school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>We get this too. I think that some of the time it's just that IB prepared them better for college than pre-IB (9th/10th) prepared for them IB. Even compared to last year, I went into this year thinking it would be similar. And junior year was no comparision to the pressure cooker this year of oral commentaries, Extended Essay deadlines, scrambling to get CAS finished, etc. And I know a lot of people were sort of blindsided by this year, assuming the traditional junior year is the hardest mentality. I feel like we weren't really prepared either year for what was really going to happen here. We were talking to our English teacher and she said she felt in hindsight the timeline for senior year should have been explained better to us before this year. It's getting better becaue we've fallen into somewhat of a rhythm but I think most of us just really weren't prepared enough to have planned ahead to get things done on better timeline before more stuff was thrown at us. </p>
<p>Anyway if that makes any sense, I don't really think college is "easier." I think all these people just strengthened their skills much more than they realized over senior year and then weren't as overwhelmed by the level of what was expected freshmen year.</p>
<p>Trying to compare all of these factors is apples and oranges. For instance at my son's high school (NC public), he took most rigorous course load. For him (3rd in class) college was a huge step up, but others from his high school class report doing very little work in their colleges and have no problem maintaining 4.0 gpa's with minimal work---unless you are comparing one particular high school to a particular college, you can't tell much about how difficult the college curriculum is.</p>
<p>I agree with you mkm56. My S did well at high school (12 APs National AP Scholar, many other awards), and he thinks college is harder than high school. He used to be "Mr. A+" and now, getting an A means very hard work for him.</p>
<p>Our high school is a bit short of incredible, but for the top students (esp. math and science oriented ones) it offers a science research program and one course beyond calculus). It also offers 24 AP courses, though I don't think too many kids take more than 8 or 9 of them.</p>
<p>I'd like to see high schools help ease the pressures top HS students feel - maybe limit the number of AP's students take. I know that my DD worked very hard in HS, took lots of APs and was often stressed. She found college much less stressful than HS, and had no problem adjusting to the workload in college. I'm not sure that will be the same experience for DS, who has had a much more relaxed HS experience. Although I'm glad DD was well prepared for college, I would have liked her to have been able to relax and enjoy more down time in high school.</p>
<p>There does seem to be quite a range of high school experiences, and college experiences, reported in the article. It seems to me, from reading college-specific forums here on CC, that some colleges can still serve up courses open to freshmen that would be challenging to high school students with the utmost preparation. But students with that level of preparation are rare enough that offering such courses is not routine at all colleges. </p>
<p>As for balanced life in high school, I like, and I think college admission officers also like, students to participate in self-directed activities rather than just piling on as many school courses as possible. My son has enjoyed math contests for years, and is newly in debate, and is just starting to do writing and web-mastering for his school's newspaper. He has his own computer-game-writing project for which he recruits help from friends. Of course many young people, as the article noted, have for years devoted themselves to high levels of personal development in competitive sports. Music is a favored activity among many other students. I definitely agree with the idea of letting young people spend substantial hours figuring out for themselves what is important and interesting--it would be regrettable indeed if rigorous school classes (which I like, when I can find them) crowded that out of young people's schedules.</p>
<p>This is typical at prep schools or elite public high schools. Since many do not live near magnet schools, no wonder the private prep schools charge $35,000 each year. Since the experience is incredible and they allow need blind admission policies, many high achievers enroll there. More importantly they high schools offer more than math/science, they offer how to interact and how to think - the most important aspect in life. These high schools allow you to develop your niche early on, and puruse what an elite colleges woul allow you to do later on - just an early passion. But if a public high school offers similar curcuiculum, then it is okay to saty in home town too. </p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
A high-level math class at Andover “is no longer a group of geeks,” a teacher says. Such classes may include students whose focus is history and international relations. </p>
<p>Dr. Watt’s students are anything but lazy. He has had to turn students away from this course — last year, only students earning a 5 or a 6 on a 1-to-6 grade scale in Physics 380 could enroll; this year, only those with a 6 got in. He also turns away applicants for his “post-A.P.” course on quantum mechanics and relativity, limited to 16. What’s more, students take the quantum mechanics in spring of their senior year, when it’s too late to impress admissions officers. “They don’t need to burnish their transcripts,” says Dr. Watt, a Harvard Ph.D. in physics who says the course is what a physics major would take sophomore or junior year. “They are just voracious.”</p>
<p>
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Jack kent cooke young scholar program offers scholsrhips to anyone who can not afford to go to this prep school (provided parents have no money - not that parents are not willing to afford what they can pay).</p>
<p>Majority of JKC scholars are now attending the similar expensive prep or magnet public schools. A blessing provided by mr. jack kent Cooke fromer owner of Washingto Red Skins. </p>
<p>Now I see Oprah is doing same thing in South Africa. Giving admisison and push up to talented people and offering tham freedom from their financial status.</p>
<p>Similar program is now done by many other people such as one offered in Brown College, RI, where Grey Goose owner has provided $300 million to incoming classes. </p>
<p>America again proves why it will attarct the best brains - make money and then donate and allow more mind to flourish.</p>
<p>My kids attend a prep school that definitely fits this bill. I have been increasingly concerned by the ramped up stress on students as well as the lack of time to pursue creative, nonacademic ventures. I suppose the good news is that the graduates uniformly report that college is easier and more enjoyable than high school.</p>
<p>I've always been a booster of good independent schools, for reasons of academic excellence but also the overall humane culture. Three of my four kids thrived (two in New England elites), but one was just too darn homesick to board -- she came home midway through first year. Our local HS is okay, by California standards, but I think the east coast LACs saw a 4.6 GPA and thought "grade inflation." Her achievements were devalued because of the "easy A" for classmates who just cruised. But it was all for the best, I guess, 'cause she loves her Northwest college.</p>
<p>im tottally not prepared for college im a sped...i go to a school that kids routinely(but not me) have autism spectrim disorders...and have other problems like adhd and tourettes(ME!) We have no regents no basics and im passing my classes w/ flying colors other then chemistry but im passing that w/ a 85 due to a very high recent class..i was never failing it tho ne way but chemistry is really hard for us ne way on a recent test a kid got a 25(NO joke) i got a 94 on that test...</p>
<p>Interesting the way diff. people interpret the same phrase differently. We have also attended a number of h.s. alum college panels, where to a person (LOL, except for a particular science major at Berkeley!) each student said that "high school was harder." Yet I interpreted that to refer to the insane young-corporate-executive schedules kept by these students: The hours spent on e.c.'s, crammed schedules with up to 8 advanced courses, co-curriculars, etc. While I agree with the poster or 2 who mentioned a higher or more uniform level of peer challenge (in college) as one of the differences, I have to say that my D has a little bit more of a social life in college than in h.s., where it was work, work, work.</p>
<p>DS was well prepared for college by the Running Start program. Our HS is small and doesn't offer too many choices( up till this year there was 1 AP class offered, Physics, now there are 3( they added APUSH and English) . Still, Running Start participation is encouraged, and DS took advantage of that. Taking REAL university classes was an eye-opening experience, it helped him enormously.</p>