Dollars and Dreams

<p>Well, OP if what you need is 1/2 tuition or better then we were in the same place. For my D there would have been little use applying to schools whose TOP merit awards would leave us with too much to pay.</p>

<p>Cangel, that's a great idea--and I do think there's time to do it before the application deadlines loom. If he could go on a couple of tours with her, sit through the info sessions, etc., he might get more engaged in the process. I invited him to go along on the CA trip we took last spring, but he opted out due to work pressures.</p>

<p>Wolrab, thanks for the book recommendation. I'll look for that one. We have always been able to work through our co-parenting issues pretty calmly and rationally, whether it's schedule changes, unexpected costs, etc. So I do have a fair amount of faith in him coming through in the end. It's just the stress of the unknown in the meantime...</p>

<p>I have to say that I am so much calmer than when I made my original post. For one thing, it got all those awful repressed fears and guilt feelings out in the open, where they don't look nearly as scary as they felt from the inside. And you have all had such good advice and ideas that I'm starting to believe that we can get through this without the plasma donations (although hey, that'd be a worthy thing to do anyway, right?).</p>

<p>Thank you so much, all of you, for taking time to share your advice. It is so appreciated.</p>

<p>Luni- I have a colleague whose son has spent time in a juvenile correctional facility. The parents are well-to-do professionals (and I think there is inherited money there as well or at least another generation ready to help); money is no object, they would go to the moon and back if they could help their son. I think they would trade places with you in a heartbeat.</p>

<p>You have nothing to feel guilty about. You have a civil relationship with your daughter's dad; you've raised a terrific kid (who also happens to be smart and academically oriented); you've had some ups and downs financially and are working your way out of those. What's not to love about you? :)</p>

<p>lunitari, your d's stats are not unlike my S's. (BTW, with a 34 ACT it may not be worth her time to take the SAT again. She should take a couple of SATIIs, though.) I would urge you to consider throwing a couple of 100% need schools with deep pockets into the mix. Try running the Amherst online calculator and see what it comes up with. <em>If</em> she can get into one of those schools, they might come up with the kind of $$ you need, since they do give need-based aid to the middle class. Pomona is known to be a very generous school, for example.</p>

<p>Can you give some examples of the kind of schools you consider too challenging for her? It seems to me that your current selection leaves a fair bit of room between the listed schools and ones that I would think of as pressure cookers.</p>

<p>Consolation, I must admit I don't entirely understand the SAT IIs...those are the subject tests, right? Do a lot of schools actually require them, or is it just an optional way of demonstrating her academic strength? I worry a little about overloading her as she begins a senior year with 5 AP classes. </p>

<p>Consolation, I guess a couple of examples would be CalTech and Pomona...we keep hearing that their students have to study ALL the time; that it's pretty brutal academically. Granted the students seem pretty happy anyway, but it suggests a stress level that my daughter might have trouble with. She is willing to work hard, and she's not a party girl--but she does hope to have a more balanced life at college, with time to do her art, participate in a student organization or two, hang out with all those friends she fervently hopes to make. :)</p>

<p>I second (third?) the suggestion of Scripps.</p>

<p>SATII's - Some colleges require them (some, for example MIT and Harvey Mudd, are very specific about which ones they require). Most colleges that require them require 2, but a few require 3. Some colleges strongly recommend them. Some don't ask for them at all. You or your daughter will have to check each college's website to know for sure, but the safest thing to do is to take 2-3 SATII's in subjects that she feels particularly stong in. Each test is an hour long, and she can take up to 3 tests on a single test date. My son took physics, which he needed to prepare for because his physics class didn't cover all the material on the SAT, and math 2. He didn't take a third because he gets fatigued during long tests (eye issues), and he isn't applying anywhere that requires 3. In terms of prep time, he spent 3 evenings with the college board physics prep book and did very well. He aced Math 2 without doing any prep for it at all.</p>

<p>I agree with you that less standardized test taking is better, so given that her ACT score is so good, she could take the SATII's in October instead of the SAT reasoning test. That would give her some flexibility in case she decides to apply somewhere that requires the SATII's.</p>

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<p>Absolutely agree with this. Dads like to be treated as something other than an open wallet (a la George Jetson).</p>

<p>I've always heard that students at Pomona, although serious about learning, are pretty laid back. That's one reason why I thought it would suit her. </p>

<p>The SATIIs are indeed subject tests, and they are required by many selective schools. Some programs require specific SAT IIs--usually tech or "automatic acceptance to med school" programs--but most do not select for you. Ideally, she would have taken them by the end of her junior year, but she could easily take two on the October testing date. (Two per date is usually considered the most you should take.) I would choose two subjects that she did well in junior year--such as the classes in which she got 5s on the AP exams--and have her get the study guides, and do some prep to refresh her mind and familiarize herself with the style of the test. It's generally considered a good idea to take one in the math/science area and one in the humanities, but it's not absolutely necessary. It would be a little odd to present yourself as a prospective computer science student and not take Math IIC, for example, but probably not a deal-breaker.</p>

<p>BTW, I think that all of the schools that used to require 3 have dropped down to 2. Is Princeton still a holdout? But yes, you should check the requirements of any school she's interested in. Taking them instead of repeating the SATI in October would give her a lot more flexibility.</p>

<p>Another example would be Reed, I think...she is really attracted to that school, but it sounds like the students pretty much study till their eyeballs bleed and then study some more. She's not lazy by any stretch of the imagination, but she wants to have some semblance of a balanced life at college.</p>

<p>It looks like Reed doesn't give any merit aid at all, though, so it may be moot. They also don't seem to offer Japanese, which is something of a dealbreaker for her. She really loves the personality of Reed, though.</p>

<p>To explain. Miami(post 35). A student can choose where they want to attend. A school determines the merit aid. A school decides on any other aid, yes to all that. How does a student NOT control the family's debt? Because it is the adult in the household that makes the financial decisions- not the student. A student can ask for 1,5, 10, or 50k help- but the student cannot require that help from the parent. Student cannot force her desires on the rest of the family. That is how the student cannot control the debt of the rest of the family.
What a parent is willing and able to give is another issue. But to say the daughter controls the rest of the family's debt indicates that the family must pick up the tab of any college costs.
Am I saying 6k is exactly same as 45k? No. I am not even saying anything even similar to that. To say student has control over family's debt says that she can force her schools' costs[big or small] on family. I disagree. Parent can choose to accept 5%, 25%, or 100% of her costs- but that is at parents' discretion thereby making the portion the rest of the family must pay out of daughters' control.</p>

<p>Younghoss, the investment isn’t limited to financial considerations. As with many parents, we were faced with the choice of sending our child to the honors program at the flagship public (full ride + stipend) or to a top ten in large city on east coast (no aid), which was his first choice b/c of academic major and location. We agreed to the latter largely because of the opportunity for personal growth in a different part of the country. Have we sacrificed? Yes, with cars, clothes, vacations, and other “things.” Was it worth it, absolutely – it really goes by very quickly.</p>

<p>You're quite right, inohio, investment isn't limited to financial considerations. But I din't address that. Miamidad and I disagree, as he feels that [in this thread] the daughter has huge control over the college costs to the rest of the family. I feel the daughter has no control. She can choose where she wants to go, she can ask for anything she wants, but it is the parent who decides what they are willing and able to contribute. 10%? 50% 100%? Choosing lesser value car? choosing lesser(or no) vacation? Selling blood?
It is up to parent to decide on any gift they may wish to contribute.</p>

<p>Younghoss, I was responding to your post #17; but, looks like we agree that finances aren't the sole consideration.</p>

<p>lunitari, beware of narrowing choices too much in the early stages. You never know what the choices will turn out to be, and how the kid will react to them. She may express concern about people studying "all the time" because she fears failure, or because she doesn't know what "studying a lot" looks like in the college context. There are schools were people study seriously AND participate in clubs and other ECs. She might find that kind of atmosphere invigorating and inspiring, Remember that in HS, studying a lot usually means being alone in your room. That's not the case in a college dorm: the isolation level is much, much lower for most kids.</p>

<p>ON the west coast I have heard of friends getting nice merit aid at Whitworth & Gonzaga (in Spokane); Lewis & Clark (OR); St Marys & Mills (CA)</p>

<p>As previously suggested you should discuss the finances with your daughter so she can take that into consideration from day 1. We did that with our son and did not even consider colleges which might not be a fin match. It saved a lot of angst and disappointment when spring of hs sr year arrived.</p>

<p>The big plus was that the college he attended was wonderful, affording him great academic opportunities and a thoroughly enjoyable 4 years of undergrad experiences. He is now in california interning and getting ready for grad school in LA.</p>

<p>Somemom, thanks for the tip--Lewis & Clark is now a hot prospect on her list. Based on the Princeton Review student comments, it sounds like a great personality fit for her, that whole liberal/artsy/quirky vibe (although you'd never know it from their web site).</p>

<p>So far her list is:</p>

<p>DEFINITELY
o Pitzer (long shot; no merit aid)
o Occidental (merit aid)
o Whitman (merit aid)
o Lewis & Clark (merit aid)</p>

<p>MAYBE
o Reed (a reach financially and otherwise)
o Beloit (merit aid)
o Skidmore (iffy; a financial reach)
o Bowdoin (iffy; no merit aid)</p>

<p>SAFETY
o Willamette (merit aid)
o University of Puget Sound (merit aid)</p>

<p>She looked at Scripps, but she seems dead set against a women's college even with co-ed schools so close by. C'est la vie--at least she's not ruling schools out for having lame mascots anymore! Maybe she's growing up??</p>

<p>She's definitely skewing to the west coast, but the right school personality will get her to look elsewhere (as evidenced by Beloit; she refused to even <em>think</em> about Wisconsin until I read her the student comments about it).</p>

<p>Lame mascot - LOL. I guess that UCSC is not for her then - the Banana Slugs. That's almost as good as loving a school for its ice cream (my son).</p>

<p>Too bad about Scripps. When I visited Harvey Mudd with my daughter, a bunch of the Mudders said that they usually went to lunch at Scripps because it has the best food of all the campuses. The meal plans allow students to eat at any dining hall in the consortium.</p>

<p>My daughter automatically eliminates any schools that aren't at least 1,000 students bigger than her high school, so elimination by lame mascot doesn't sound that bad to me.</p>