<p>I did not encourage my son to apply to reaches and super-reaches, but only because we were 100% certain not going to get any need-based financial aid, and we had already set a $ limit well under the going rate of $45-50,000. </p>
<p>I, thus, did not want to be "the bad guy", in refusing to pay for a super-selective school. Your situation may be completely different.</p>
<p>When my kid was a junior, we toured many schools in the Boston area. We spent a lot of time at Tufts which we both really liked. We did a very quick tour of Harvard, mostly to humor my daughter. It was the only school we did not attempt to eat it or talk to random students. I let my daughter apply but basically told her she should forget about it. When she got in (early) she barely remembered what the school looked like as we had focused so little energy on it as we toured. She is happily enrolled there now. No, she is not an Intel finalist, etc. etc. And by the way, she did not get into Penn and was waitlisted by Wash U.</p>
<p>You cannot win if you do not play ... nor can you protect your child from disappointments in this world.</p>
<p>You said it, Marinmom (#20). Very nicely put.</p>
<p>Post #21 is also key. I've read about enough kids on CC and seen kids who have gotten into highly selective schools they didn't expect to be admitted to...only to have parents say they won't pay for it.</p>
<p>Safety EA or rolling admissions schools that your child applies to early (and would be VERY happy at) frequently help prevent heartbreak in April....</p>
<p>Also, something to keep in mind: the class of 2008 was supposedly the peak of the "baby boom echo", as some called it. As such, it was the most competitive college admissions year anyone has seen in a long time. Even the UCs had elevated competition, as well as some of the more competitive CSUs. </p>
<p>Now things probably won't be back to normal just quite yet, but most of us think that Class of '09 won't be quite as bad. (At least at my school, '09 really doesn't stand up to '08's standards...not to put down any rising seniors or their skills. This is just the conversation that occurred at my particular school.)</p>
<p>If your child has the numbers to make a reach at least a possibility, then of course he should apply. The key, as other posters have noted, is to be sure there are matches and safeties that also meet his needs and will be good fits for him. There is no harm in applying to reach schools--and as so many people have said on these boards, many top schools are reaches for almost anyone, anyway. It is okay to be disappointed if you don't get in to some of the schools--we've been through that and it is not fun--but keep in mind you can't protect him from disappointment forever, in any case, and applying to a dream school or two is fine, assuming there is some basis of achievement. Just work with him to keep things in perspective and be sure he appluies to a range of schools that will work for him.</p>
<p>Any child who would be "heartbroken" not to get into any particular school or small group of schools does not have a mature perspective. We suffer from an embarrassment of riches of great colleges in this country. There are "fourth tier" universities here -- quite a few of them, in fact -- that would be the pride of nations in many parts of the world. Some of us attended them, and have had long and productive careers in which we have hired and fired many an Ivy Leaguer. </p>
<p>By no means do I suggest that there are not qualitative differences among US colleges and Universities, but for any motivated student the institutions that are capable of providing a happy and valuable college experience are not five or eight or fifty, but number in the hundreds. That's the mature perspective.</p>
<p>Now, 17 year old kids shouldn't necessarily be expected to have a mature perspective. That's where good parental advice and behavior comes in during this process.</p>
<p>Terrygreg: I think that, as parents, we all hate to see our kids disappointed. Our natural inclination is to try to protect them. However, we ultimately have to learn that life is often unfair, and we can't protect our adult kids from every disappointment. In terms of college, there are a few important things that we, as parents, need to do. </p>
<p>The first is to try to separate out our own anxiety about how things will turn out from our child's anxiety about the admissions process. As a counselor, kids often confide to me that they are more worried about "letting their parents down" and how their parents will react if they are rejected from a particular school, than they are about how they, the student, will feel. So, number one rule: try to keep your anxiety in check as much as possible. Some worry is normal, of course, but if you find yourself giving ANY signals at all to your son that may add to HIS anxiety, pull back, and find another outlet for it.</p>
<p>The other thing that is very important to remember is that most kids are pretty resilient. Unless your son has some sort of emotional issue that makes you concerned that he will react in some over the top manner if he is rejected somewhere, have faith in his ability to handle rejection IF it occurs. Yes, IF a rejection happens, he may be disappointed for a while, but he is not likely to be devastated.</p>
<p>A third point to remember, and keep repeating to yourself: Being rejected from ANY college - highly selective or not -- is not a personal reflection on your son OR you as a parent. Do not take any rejection personally, and make sure your son understands that any rejection he may receive down the road is not a measure of his worth as a person.</p>
<p>Finally, while there are rare instances where a student is not accepted anywhere, in MOST cases, students who have a well-rounded list that includes at least one or two safe bets, really WILL end up OK. Even if the worst happens, and he doesn't get accepted anywhere (again, this is VERY rare), life will go on. He'll apply again the following year, he will end up ok, and so will you.</p>
<p>So, make a promise to yourself right now, not to let anxiety overwhelm YOU. Trust that all will work out as it should, help your son develop a well rounded list, and don't get too caught up in fear. It really will be OK.</p>
<p>PS I would also caution you against reading too much into the stories of OTHER people's admissions sagas. Each student is unique, and so is their admissions journey. Unless you have the OTHER student's application before you, and sat in on the admissions committee meeting where the decision was made, you really don't have the full story, and that can make for some crazy late nights of worry. Don't compare your son, or his chances, to people you haven't even met. There are plenty of horror stories to go around, but there are also literally THOUSANDS of wonderful happy endings. Focus on THOSE, not the few horror stories.</p>
<p>I also would caution you NOT to discuss the schools your son is applying to with friends, neighbors, family members, and the postman. A good deal of admissions anxiety for many parents comes from fear of the embarrassment of having to tell people that your child didn't get in to such and such school. Just keep things to yourself as much as possible, and caution your son to do the same.</p>
<p>An addition to Carolyn's many excellent points: Being "rejected" is not always about not being "good enough," sometimes it really is about "fit." </p>
<p>I am now glad that our son was not accepted to MIT. If he had been, he may have gone. But knowing what I know now, I doubt that MIT would have been a great place for him. I think that the adcoms may have seen something in his application that told them them the same thing if they were, in fact, considering him for admission.</p>
<p>Your son will find his spot (and there is no one and only spot) and make his way and be fine. When we are in this phase with our kids, we can feel that everything is make or break. I think we help by being calm and providing respite for them during this stressful time of decisions and transitions.</p>
<p>We did this 3 years ago now, and I've asked d-- both she and I have no regrets about her applying to reaches and one super-reach --she got into 9/10 although d was waitlisted/ then did not get into her one super-reach. Although last year was worse than the year before for admissions, the population chasing spots has made college admissions brutal in general for years.</p>
<p>She did get into 3 reaches (and 4 other matches, all with affordable net cost for us), and we had set the expectation that unless ANY offer was affordable to us, it was out of the picture. One reach was immediately dismissed when the net cost after merit and fin AID was deducted was 20K higher than other offers. It was not a surprise that it was out of whack as we knew the school wasn't need-blind and postings here from previous years had educated us on the school's gapping. Not getting emotionally attached is key, as is managing expectations correctly. Comparing your attributes to older students at your h.s. with similiar qualifications is a key reality check-- where did they get in/not get in. For us, so was visiting to confirm her interest and then listening intently about each school's merit aid policies- we found some schools were quite open about this, and it helped d to choose match schools for her list. Admissions season was painless for us, even the waitlisting at the super-reach was a happy day. However the brutality of what happened to d's graduating class (i.e., who didn't get what they wanted) was shocking.</p>
<p>Having a realistic list with only a few super-reaches is key if you are applying for fin aid because the schools can see your other fin aid schools...and you want to avoid your reaches thinking they are second choice to your super-reaches and waitlisting your student, otherwise known as tufts syndrome...one top classmate was brutally waitlisted/rejected from 9 schools in a few days and well, that was tough.</p>
<p>In summary, go for it but calculate carefully and unemotionally.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your great advice. I am not going to tell him to take the super reach schools off his list, I am going to suggest that he add one or two more safeties to his list instead. Then, I am going to relax and not worry. He is mature and level headed - he has never fallen apart in the past so he will probably be okay, whatever the outcome.</p>
<p>Agree with everything said and ECHO Loudly the words about financial considerations. Do not let him apply to super reaches if you cannot afford the full freight tuition. Nothing is more heartbreaking to me than the posts by kids who got into their super reach only to have the parents tell them it wasn't affordable. Don't count on FA to pay for a super reach or any school.</p>
<p>terrygreg, sounds good! This is just one of many times you will need to trust him and his resources in the next few years. He sounds like a great kid.</p>
<p>"Having a realistic list with only a few super-reaches is key if you are applying for fin aid because the schools can see your other fin aid schools...and you want to avoid your reaches thinking they are second choice to your super-reaches and waitlisting your student, otherwise known as tufts syndrome...one top classmate was brutally waitlisted/rejected from 9 schools in a few days and well, that was tough."</p>
<p>theocmom-- I'm new to this, so I don't understand how this works. How do the schools see the financial aid applications to other schools? How do you keep your reaches (or safeties for that matter) from thinking they are second choice?</p>
<p>OP: You equate "not getting in" with "breaking his heart." These are two entirely separate things.</p>
<p>As several have said, you can't get in if you don't apply. So, apply.</p>
<p>But as several have said, don't focus on one school as the be-all, end-all. That way, if he's rejected, his heart isn't broken.</p>
<p>Sounds simple and logical.</p>
<p>cpq1xtbu-
If the other schools to which you are applying are listed on the application (the question is often asked), the inference can be drawn. There are discussions elsewhere about the wisdom and strategy of listing other schools.</p>
<p>PLEASE -- let your son have command of the process - let HIM choose the school. Offer him your support and equip him with good information, but let him figure it out from there. My son dropped Ivies and their equivalent from consideration after reading the book A is for Admission by Michele Hernandez, which is a good reality check as to what goes on in elite admissions. </p>
<p>Another book I recommend is Winning the College Admissions Game, by Peter Van Buskirk --this book is very direct about the considerations that go into admissions -- and is actually 2 books in one, one for parents, one for kids, with some of the best info of any college admissions book about college financial aid as well. The advantage of this book is that it also provides the info your son needs to improve his presentation for college apps -- there is a strategy, both in selection of schools and in putting together an application - and it is a probably something that you would pick up from reading post on this board -- but its a lot easier to hand your kid a couple of books and let him browse through them or read them. </p>
<p>Do talk finances with your kid, from the beginning -- and if you know a college is going to be financially out of reach, then tell him. But do not tell him that he cannot apply to any school if he truly wants to attend -- both my daughter and her older brother were upset with me during her high school senior year because I "didn't have faith" and "didn't support" her efforts toward reach schools -- she felt that I was a drag on the process. And she was admitted to the reach schools she applied do, including the college she now attends, in what ended up being the most competitive admissions year of its history. (And she had the type of "stats" where anyone would have told her to forget about getting in -- in fact, one very well known "expert" on college admissions told her exactly that.)</p>
<p>I did see it as my job to make absolutely sure my daughter applied to schools that were both admissions and financial safeties for us --in our case, that was accomplished by the end of November, when UC applications were due -- and I figured that once the UC app was in, my job was over. So in hindsight, I should have been more of a cheerleader after that, less of a nay sayer. </p>
<p>Like you, I was worried about my daughter being hurt by disappointing results... but I didn't realize that the most important "acceptance" to her emotionally was the respect and encouragement she wanted from her mom. I wanted to protect her, but she felt hurt by the sense that her own mom didn't think she was good enough for the top schools. Of course I didn't say anything like that, but that's the message she took from my pessimism and constant attempts to push the merits of the safety schools. </p>
<p>(Of course, I can't win with my d. Now she has her sights set on a graduate program that is extremely difficult to get into. I keep telling her I am sure that she is going to get in, and she keeps telling me that I just don't understand how impossible that is. But at least I'm no longer playing the role of the nay sayer.)</p>
<p>What has happened too in recent years is the blurring of reach/match/safety categories. It's entirely possible (actually it's become quite common) for someone to be accepted into Harvard or Yale, waitlisted at WashU and JHU, and rejected at Georgetown and Tufts. Unfortunately you don't know where he'll get lucky till the results are in so I agree, apply to a couple far reaches. </p>
<p>I also agree with applying to rolling admissions safety, plus an EA or two especially if your son applies to a reach ED. My son got an EA acceptance same week as ED rejection. Without that early acceptance, even though he ended up elsewhere, it would have been a lousy Christmas and a long winter.</p>
<p>I still think MIT would have been a great fit for my son, but it was not the end of the world. Carnegie Mellon is a great fit too. :)</p>
<p>The point is that elite school admissions from the outside looking in are caprecious enough that you never really know why one kid was accepted and another one wasn't. It may have been one kid's letter of recommendations, another kid's incredible essay, or a third kid might have an EC outside school that no one knows about.</p>