Dorm Disappointments

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Notre Dame
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<p>My son is a freshman at Notre Dame and I thought I'd post some of my impressions of his first semester. Or I should say, my negative impressions of one part of ND life. While my son's enjoying himself on the whole, and the classes are terrific, we're disappointed in his residence hall experience. Which is surprising, considering that many people (including many on College Confidential) consider the dorms one of the best parts of ND. Specifically, we're taken aback at the amount of heavy drinking and sleeping around that goes on. When we were considering ND, my wife and I heard about its reputation for drinking and parties. But during the visit and when we took our son there to start school, we were lulled into a false sense of security by the talk of Catholic character and the rules of behavior and parietals and so on. It's that nagging sense of false advertising that concerns me.</p>

<p>I've worked with freshmen at a research university for over ten years, so I'm not na</p>

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<p>Your post is likely to generate a lot of discussion, which I welcome. As the dad of a HS senior and ND applicant, I thank you for your candor and fair-handed approach.</p>

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<p>Are you my dad?</p>

<p>Hahaha.</p>

<p>I share the same experience.</p>

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<p>Well I don't know what you were expecting...there isn't much else to do in South Bend except those sorts of things.</p>

<p>The Catholic character bit doesn't mean anything when it comes to drinking. Catholics as a whole buy more alcohol than any other group. The Catholic religious experience is centered around drinking wine/blood.</p>

<p>As a Catholic, I think it's shameful that people try to use "Catholic character" as an excuse for not drinking. If anything, it's a rational TO drink.</p>

<p>This is coming from a teetotaling Catholic--one who is fairly sure he isn't likely to remain so straightedge in college.</p>

<p>The only alternative I can think of is for your son to try to move in to Old College. But if he isn't seriously considering a vocation to the priesthood I don't know how comfortable he'd be there.</p>

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<p>theloneranger: Yes, there is plenty of drinking at Notre Dame, but I wouldn't say that being Catholic has anything to do with it. And plenty of people here don't drink nor feel pressured to do so.</p>

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<p>ManUtd200le--do you think the amount of "sexile" tolerated depends on the rector? I think the alcohol factor is probably equally prevalent in all dorms.</p>

<p>I am glad disillusioned dad shared these concerns. My S is also a freshman. He is very happy with his ND experience in general so far, and specifically loves his dorm and the good friends he has made there. I do not think most of those with money flaunt it excessively, and this has happened to S much less than I feared or expected. However, we are also middle class and the ease with which others spend large sums of money, as OP stated, did bother my S, especially the first half of first semester. </p>

<p>H and I are very pleased with how S and we as parents have been treated. My main, and biggest by far, complaint is the complacency of the university with regard to alcohol use (and abuse). To parents of applicants--My guess is that the level is on par with other universities, and perhaps less than big state schools. Perhaps ManUtd200le or other current Domers can give their opinion on that.</p>

<p>As for parietals, S did get "written up", reprimanded and did community service for breaking them early first semester. </p>

<p>Our feeling (with strong statements from S) is that the university not only does not issue a strong position on alcohol, they condone it. My S is not saying these things as someone who is upset with the policy. In fact, I am certain he drank more his first semester than he should have and more than I liked. He was not a drinker in HS. </p>

<p>I tried to discuss safety/alcohol with him re: seeking medical care in a potential alcohol poisoning. I think alcohol safety should be the first concern, especially if a school is going to be otherwise lax regarding this. My S's first response, "I'm not about to get ResLifed for taking someone to the health center." I am unsure if that would happen, but I would hope not.</p>

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<p>I don't know if this will help at all, it is just how I view things, but maybe it will help someone. If not, please forgive my random rant.</p>

<p>It is what you make of it I feel. I graduated from ND last year and I loved my time there even though I never "bedded" women nor did I drink while I was there. I think it is one of those things where if you don't make it a big deal then it really isn't to anyone else. I came to the realization that people will do whatever they want, but my roommate and I both were straight shooters and that is all I needed. If your son has a good roommate then, if he is laid back, it isn't bad. There were many a night I shook my head at the drunk kids, but it is their choice, and it really didn't bother me personally...but that is just me.</p>

<p>It is college. It doesn't matter where you go, there are going to be these issues. Heck, I see some of these issues among graduate students! Like all things in life though, the only person you can control is you. People will make poor decisions, and they have to live with those, but as long as they don't affect me it isn't a big deal. I don't know, it just seemed to work well, I let them make their decisions and they seemed to respect me for making the decision not to drink. That is just my experience.</p>

<p>I guess what I am trying to say is don't worry too much, overall it is still a good environment. You can't worry about others, college students will always do stupid things, but as long as you aren't making stupid decisions, that is the main thing (again, in my mind at least).</p>

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<p>I really don't know what to say-son is a soph having just finished his first semester of SOPH year. Yes, I am well aware of the drinking issues--in fact, he lived next door to two guys freshman year that were pretty much living the "high" life! But, he survived and continues to remain friends with them even tho they don't travel in the same social circles anymore. They just happened to live next door. As far as the girls--can't comment. All I can say is that our only disappointment is that the level of communication between Rector and son has been almost zero. Granted, I don't think son has made much of an effort--but I thought there might have been more. To be perfectly honest, son really has not had much time being an engineering major to party and play too much. I know for a fact that freshman year he missed several football games for studying and missed more games this year because of studying (I know, some fan of ND he is!) Given his grades (I am not bragging, either), he couldn't have been partying too much both last year and this year. His courseload at 17+ hours just can't allow it. We did encounter several kids last year that were only taking 13 or so hours which perhaps gave them more time on their hands. He settled with great roommates this year (in a quad with one of the guys an eng major as well), so I don't think they have much party time. No, their life is not all studying, but they are a year older and more importantly their workloads are, in my opinion, staggering. I am sorry you have encountered a bad taste--I won't say that this is just a sign of the times. We were delighted that son chose ND over some other elite schools. We toured all over the country with him and saw some things at some of these other elite schools that would have indeed curled your toes. What I saw at ND was probably about the best situation given the state of colleges and unis today. Hang in there--talk to your son regularly. We do and visit when we can. You cannot always control what other people do, but you can certainly encourage your son to rise above.</p>

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<p>"The Catholic character bit doesn't mean anything when it comes to drinking. Catholics as a whole buy more alcohol than any other group. The Catholic religious experience is centered around drinking wine/blood."</p>

<p>Religion and politics are subjects generally avoided in conversation, but this is the ND forum, and it is an election year... I am just flabbergasted by these statements, and especially coming from a Catholic- based on your statement to that effect and I believe your attending a Catholic school- the last is theologically outrageous. If you truly think that is what the Catholic experience centers on, you are missing out on a lot, not to mention the genuine importance of the Eucharist to our faith. These statements are simply bizarre to me. Is there some effort at witty sarcasm I'm too old to grasp?</p>

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<p>I reread the original posts and thought of my son- also a freshman. He complains a little about his floor/hall in the dorm for the opposite reasons-boring guys that he has nothing in common with. He has lots of friends from class, girls he knows, the team etc so that's not an issue. He is not a huge drinker (on a sports team at ND w/practice 6 days/week) and fairly low key, but does like to be social and attends lots of different events. </p>

<p>He and a few friends are thinking of entering the lottery for the new dorm to see what kind of pick they get for a room. The way I understand it (and I very well could be wrong) the lottery for the new dorm room pick happens before your original dorm lottery. My S doesn't dislike his dorm-but I think he could take or leave it. He and his friends thought they would check out the other option and maybe start fresh. If it doesn't work out, they are OK where they are. Maybe your son could check this option out. I do think the dorm atmosphere can really make/break your experience.</p>

<p>The drinking, sex, partying etc are part of every college. I hope that we have done a good job for the first 18 years so he can make the right choices while he's there.</p>

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<p>Wow, I want to know what dorm that is, I'm going to transfer there. </p>

<p>This is not to try to rag on your sons but they kind of need to stop being pansies. If they have trouble with the liberality of dorm life at Notre Dame then they should be at Bob Jones or Brigham Young or Oral Roberts or some other aptly named university. Notre Dame has some of the most Draconian Residence Life rules that I know of. On the plus side, we keep up the number of community service hours and can afford to buy new furniture with all of the fines.</p>

<p>All the dorms are not the same when it comes to this. I'll give you expremes. Dillon, you can make a bloody (literally, blood everywhere) mess of the place and be on your way. MoTown, you can have a bottle within sight of the RA when you open your door and you're looking at a $50 minimum fine. As for breaking of parietals, I've only known it to happen occasionally in a certain North Quad girls dorm, but I don't everything. As for peer pressure to hook-up, it actually goes the other way; no one likes a flousy, unless she's from across the road because then you never have to see her again, theoretically.</p>

<p>Getting caught breaking parietals is amateur. Kind of like in the Untouchables when Eliot Ness and Co stop the beer smuggling trucks on the Canadian border. Capone=amateur. </p>

<p>Engineers party. And they go to the hospital on weeknights. Maybe they just don't know how to pace themselves.</p>

<p>Yeah, there are some rich kids, and we know who they are. Welcome to life.</p>

<p>Every freshman used to get a personalized BAC card, until it was decided that that actually encouraged drinking. As it is, every freshman has to sit through a mandatory session regarding responsible drinking and emergency responses to poisoning.</p>

<p>Old College is only for aspiring seminarians. And besides, there's nothing wrong with someone of the opposite sex visiting your room, provided there's no hanky panky going on of course.</p>

<p>Catholicism = heavy drinking? A little bid broad, but let me ask you: Have you ever met a priest who wasn't a wine connoisseur?</p>

<p>Notre Dame is much milder than many schools. Recently I have visited an Ivy League school in the Empire State and a prominent university in Santa Clara County. Both schools had 1) obvious public use of marijuana that was not inhibited by any student or authority 2) students of the opposite sex living in university housing, not just in the same buildings, but in the same rooms. I prefer the spoiled ND kids who like to pound it back than the free-love hippie pot-heads at some other top schools. I think you sons would agree with me.</p>

<p>The drinking, sex, partying are not part of every college. Like I said, they can go elsewhere. Ave Maria in Florida. Thomas Aquinas in Southern California. Franciscan University of Steubenville. However, I trust, just as you do, that you've done a good job raising them the first 18 years. Furthermore, I'm glad to see that there are students out there who have some of the same problems with dorm life that I do. I'm glad to see that you as parents care. But at some point we have to trust that your sons (or daughters) are wise enough to navigate life. Of course there are pitfalls in college, we can't avoid all of them. Just work on skipping the huge ones.</p>

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<p>As the original poster, let me clarify a few things, especially for bpayne1.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Obviously, name-calling is not productive.</p></li>
<li><p>My son still enjoys ND and his dorm, and just vents privately to me after particularly bad experiences.</p></li>
<li><p>I know that college kids get drunk and sleep around. I'm on a college campus as I write this, and so far this quarter have worked and talked with about 700 freshmen, like I do every quarter. I get it that it's going to happen to some degree, anywhere. What I expected from ND was a good-faith effort to control heavy drinking and hook-ups. What bothers me is ND saying they make such an effort, and then (at least in one dorm) looking the other way. I know other campuses are worse; mine is. But my campus makes no pretense at controlling such behavior.</p></li>
<li><p>My post was just to give information and impressions, not to solve anything or talk anybody out of going to ND. The more info students and parents have to go on, the better.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Well, I don’t have a problem with bpayne1’s response. A pretty negative nom de plume for a first-ever, fairly negative posting on CC would seem to set the tone. OP, sorry your expectations were not met but perhaps they were not realistic. I’m especially not getting your rationale for why your son can’t move off campus. It is always your option. Our experience is that the ND dorm system with parietals works pretty well, especially in comparison to the dorm experiences students have on other campuses. In any event, your son can greatly improve his housing environment when he chooses his roommates for next year. I wish him the best.</p>

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<p>My take is that the OP does have realistic expectations regarding college sex and alcohol, especially given the fact he works in that environment. If they are unrealistic in regard specifically to ND, perhaps it is because ND fairly bluntly stated so during freshman/parent orientation. At least from where I sat on the floor of the Joyce Arena, I heard loud and clear that hard alcohol and sex outside of marriage would not be tolerated and would be dealt with severely. As OP states, most colleges don't make a pretense of controlling this behavior.</p>

<p>Yes, the student can live off campus, but due to the frat-like function of dorms, I think it's much less an option than it is at campuses where off-campus living is the norm. Very few ND sophomore students live off campus. Many parents also don't want their children living off-campus until jr. or sr. year.</p>

<p>The ND dorm system is working extremely well for my S, but especially given ND's official presentation, I understand his concerns.</p>

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<p>The OP chose the name ‘disillusioned dad’. That was obviously intentional and pretty deliberately advertises his position and agenda. It will be interesting to see the topics and tone of future posts under that name. </p>

<p>I too sat in Joyce Arena, but I heard what I heard with slightly different expectations and results. My son is not a drinker. He is very happy at ND (and yes, living in a dorm on campus). I happen to think it is the norm to live on campus because, for most students, the ND dorm system works. We are happy he chose ND. No regrets here.</p>

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<p>I guess I didn't feel the OP had an "agenda". Perhaps he will re-post and let us know. My name is sryrstress. That's what I was feeling at the time I joined. Perhaps I should now change it to froshyrhappy.</p>

<p>You may have had different expectations from what you heard, but that doesn't change what ND said. I believed them and did, and do, hold ND to higher standards than I would have expected at State U.</p>

<p>My S also is very happy at ND. I too think it is the norm to live on campus because for most students it works. However, there are several posts on this thread stating that the poster (who is a current student) has some of the same qualms as the OP.</p>

<p>We too are happy S chose ND. No regrets here either.</p>

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<p>DisillusionedDad--please keep us updated. I think you will find or your son will find that things get better. Son has told us that looking back now, a lot of what he witnessed and experienced was a "freshman thing". Many kids that have never been away from home or for that matter never bothered to visit the campus to even begin to know what ND campus life is like. I know that not everyone can visit the campus, but if I were going to pay ND's prices or send my kid that far away, I would at least want to know what he was getting into. (Son's roommate last year and parents were absolutely aghast when they opened the dorm room for the first time to discover just how small some of the rooms can be! The dad was not happy at ALL!) As I mentioned, they mature and hopefully will leave ND as productive citizens. This year has been MUCH better-all the way around (except maybe the intense work--but that is to be expected, It is Notre Dame after all!) And no, son has no intentions of moving off-campus. His thing is he is too close to eveything-dining hall, classes, etc.
He says why would he want to move off-campus and have to cook, drive(ice and snow), find a place to park, etc. I imagine he rolls out of bed some mornings just minutes before class. What a life!</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the responses. In hindsight I should have picked a less gloomy username; I hadn't intended it to be provocative. To be honest I expected to post just once, on the dorm topic, which is the only part of ND that I'm disillusioned about. I should have known that posting once is about as likely as eating just one potato chip, and picked a more neutral name.</p>

<p>Notre Dame AL, thank you for the encouragement. I'm sure you're right, that things will mellow with time. If anything new comes up, or changes in respect to the dorm experience, I'll post again.</p>

<p>For now, I think everything's been said--some of it said better, and more concisely, by those responding to my original post. The only other thing I can see that might still require clarification, is a misunderstanding among some respondents that I'm worried about my kid. Not so. So far as we can tell, we did raise him right, and he's handling ND well. He neither joins in the drinking nor sits alone and sulks. He goes to the parties and socializes, and when things get too boozy he leaves. And there is a sort of grim camaraderie among "sexiles" apparently. My only purpose was, and remains, to add an additional bit of information and another first impression for the already information-overloaded ND enquirers to consider.</p>

<p>To end on a positive note, I repeat that the classes have been, if anything, even better than we'd hoped. The profs and coursework so far at ND have been fantastic. Good luck, all.</p>

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<p>OP- another option may be to look into Morrissey Manor as an option. The Rector gave the freshman parent orientation speech last year (son is sophomore now) and presented himself as extremely strict, and intended to enforce "his" rules.</p>

<p>I can not say how much things are have "loosened up" over the last two years, and I am certainly Not Saying the rules are NOT being broken regularly, but it might offer more of the atmosphere your son will thrive in.</p>

<p>Of course, so much depends on roomies, fellow suite mates but this may be an option to explore. I know some students transferred in, and they are going through the "decanting" process of selecting students for the new dorm. So there should be openings in Morrissey. Warning- they are the smallest rooms on campus-no air conditioning, so there might be a trade off :) </p>

<p>From what we heard from other Freshman parents (last year) Morrissey rector was quite unique in his stance.</p>

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<p>Morrissey Manor has a reputation for zero tolerance of anything even remotely related to fun.</p>