<p>The kids are in their rooms now more than they were 30 years ago, too, especially if they have desktop computers, which essentially force them to do a lot of their schoolwork in their rooms. </p>
<p>Thirty years ago, I never studied in my freshman dorm room (because I didn't like my roommate), and I never studied in my upperclass dorm room (because I liked my roommates too much; their presence would have been too much of a distraction). I studied in libraries and in the study rooms in the student center. But if I were a student today, I wouldn't be able to live that way unless I happened to have a laptop computer.</p>
<p>I think the problem will get better in terms of technology, though. Instead of desktop PC's, the kids now have laptops and wireless setups. They don't need Tv's (watch videos on the laptaps), or stereos (ditto), or record players/tape players. They can use their cell phones as alarm clocks - or their laptops for that matter. Smaller stuff = more space.</p>
<p>And I agree with the parents who have figured out that their kids care more about the personal interactions than the physical facilities. single rooms and suite apartment-style living may be fine for upper-level students who have already established a circle of friends, but for incoming freshman, shared bathrooms and hallways make for more chances to build friendships.</p>
<p>Heh. My dorm celebrated its 80th birthday last year. It is neither new nor luxurious, and makes no claim to be either. It has community bathrooms, no air conditioning, heaters that sometimes rattle at night, and no elevators. I love my dorm, my hall, and the rooms I've lived in. They have character. There are many dorms on the campus that are much newer and more luxurious, but I would never switch.</p>
<p>As it happens, I have a photo of my freshman-year room, albeit a photo with bad lighting. It was a double. I could have had a single, but my temp roommate from Orientation and I decided that we liked living together.</p>
<p>Here's the issue I do have with dorms - the cost. They no doubt have a certain cost for upkeep but in many areas one can find a luxurious apartment (which also has an upkeep cost) for substantially less cost than on-campus dorms. My older D attends UCSD and lived on-campus for the first 2 years and now lives off-campus in La Jolla (a very upscale community). The on-campus dorm was 20 or so years old and built on state land so there was no land cost component. When you compare the minimal square footage and lack of amenities of the dorm to an apartment about a mile away (very nice apt., probably 5 times the space, pools, workout room, jacuzzis, gardens, etc.) the cost of the dorm is really outrageous (I'm not counting the cost of the meal plan). In many other communities that aren't in as upscale an area, it can be even worse of a differential.</p>
<p>You can not really compare dorms to apartments.Dorms offer a little more support to kids living on their own for the first time than do apartments. RAs etc can help kids with problems that develop such as how to access health care at 3 am, what to do when they are locked out, lost their ID, etc. Do you really think most 18 year olds are really ready for the all the issuers of living totally on their own. After freshman year maybe an apartment is OK but not during the first year.</p>
<p>The freshman dorms at Pitt are round towers, causing each room to be shaped a little like a piece of pie. Although they are considered the dregs of campus living, my son and many others found the arrangements to be pretty decent. There was lots of comraderie. The walls were construction block and each room had a smoke detector and sprinkler. Each student got a closet, five drawer chest, and a desk. There was ample storage under the bed. The furniture and carpet was fairly new and there was air conditioning. He did learn to visit the hall bathrooms at strategic times, though, like soon after they were cleaned. ;) As a parent, I liked that there were two different cafeterias right in the building complex.</p>
<p>One smart thing that Pitt did was to reserve a dorm room for tours, and then they had it completely decked out by Bed Bath and Beyond. It gave a good impression of what a dorm room could really look like with a little creativity and effort.</p>
<p>One other thing that affected our opinions of dorms at various schools was the food (very important to teenage boys). We looked for lots of choices and convenient locations of eateries. Some colleges had beautiful cafeterias and delicious food (Washington and Jefferson College, Penn State) while some had only fast food in styrofoam or plastic (CMU). I think you could get by with lousy food for a couple of weeks, but it would not be easy for a whole year.</p>
<p>I understand about RAs but take a look at what they get paid - generally nothing other than perhaps a free room (whose true market cost would be minimal). This cost is almost nothing against the income obtained from the many students living there. I really think students (and ergo parents) are generally gouged in dorm prices.</p>
<p>You are also paying for campus security, fire and ambulance as well as dorm based education programs. These are not available in apartments. Dorms are safer than apartments especially for 18 year olds who tend to do stupid things.</p>
<p>When I got to Princeton 32 years ago and took a look at my dorm room I was amazed. It was awful. A little bitty space with two bunk beds two desks two dressers and a window about 2.5 feet across. Very sad. When I unloaded D last September it was into her own single in an air conditioned dorm with bamboo hardwood flooring and a big window. And the dorm still looked gothic on the outside. </p>
<p>It never dawned on me to complain 32 years ago. I didn't go to college for luxury living. And I make sure my D knows how lucky she is now.</p>
<p>The apartments also have security (private and, of course, city police) as well as fire/ambulance (again, city - same as the U).</p>
<p>I'm not advocating apartments over dorms for freshmen (I prefer dorms over apartments for them), I'm just saying the amount the college charges for them is out of line with the college's cost for them.</p>
<p>Campus security is different from city based security. I work for a university not in security but in health care. We run numerous programs in the dorms. Some event based ie during big party weekends etc., some in response to specific dorm based concerns etc. In a dorm you are getting more support than in an apartment.</p>
<p>It's funny that I came across this today. The other day, I was told that a condo in my neighborhood has been bought by the parents of a student. I thought that the parents were downsizing and decided to move close to where their child was going to school or maybe that the parents are alumni who visit frequently for events or football games.</p>
<p>Well, come to find out that they told the property's manager that they really don't want their child to deal with living in the residence halls. That made me a little sad. So much learning happens outside the classroom in college and this student, while living in a beautiful place, is going to miss out on some of those lessons (and a lot of fun!). He or she is going to be disconnected. </p>
<p>Those housing costs are high, but operating a residential program must be extremely expensive. Between the constant renovation that seems to go on (updating the appearance, but also the wiring/technology in the halls), the programming, operating support services like the infirmary and counseling services, and paying for things like vandalism and false fire alarms, I can't imagine much money is being made in the housing office.</p>
<p>Off campus housing is great in certain places. Unfortunately, there are towns and cities where off campus housing is not so great. Landlords can be difficult, utility companies are sometimes a pain, the commute doesn't allow one to roll out of bed and into class, the list goes on. Some students thrive and handle independent living beautifully. Some don't enjoy having the extra balls to juggle.</p>
<p>When you check for dorm rooms make sure to find out what are best places for studying. In many cases there is usually plenty of great space for studying including library and that is all that counts. Here is IL I have been impressed by Illinois Wesleyan university which has gorgeous two story apartment type dorms. Knox college offers suite style rooms and food offers lots of options, incuding vegetarian and vegan with calorie count on each dish/vitally important info per my D/
Lake Forest college offers about half of the rooms as singles and they are decent sized-12x12 to 17x13 for doubles. Food also very good quality, many variety of 'cook in front of you" grilles and such.
Almost any dorm room could be made comfy if you use some of your creativity- check out trift stores, dollar stores, fabric stores- with very little spending money dorm room could be real cutie.</p>
<p>Again - I'm not advocating living off-campus since I think living on-campus for at least the first couple of years is much preferred. It's great that there seem to be many who are satisfied with the costs of the dorms and feel the charges are justified. At some colleges, they probably are justified depending on the charges. I just think that at many, they aren't. Most of the other costs mentioned (vandalism, refurbs, alarms, utilities, etc.) are incurred at off-campus locations as well. The infirmary/clinic, at least at my Ds' campuses, is paid for by a separate charge. I think the colleges know they can charge a premium over their actual costs for their dorms and therefore do.</p>
<p>The convenience of the location (rolling out of bed), etc. aren't actual cost items to the Uni and don't enter the cost equation. This is especially true at many state universities where the land was obtained at little to no cost.</p>
<p>Many of the people disgruntled with the lack of space and amenities in the dorms might be less concerned if the charges were more in line with what the actual cost to the Uni actually is.</p>
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<p>I'm just saying the amount the college charges for them is out of line with the college's cost for them.>></p>
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<p>Depends where your child goes to college. DS lived in the dorms for two years. We REALLY wanted him to stay in Boston University's upperclass housing...very very nice apartments $10,000 for housing only (but that does include ALL utilities including the phone and cable) from August 31 through Mid-May. He chose to live off campus. His off campus apartment for this year is $635per month per person for rent only. There are three of them in the apartment. They have to pay for their own heat, hot water, electricity, cable, and natural gas (for cooking). This will add about $100 per month (we hope not a lot more) per person each month. PLUS DS needs to find a subletter for May, June, July, Aug after he graduates. He needed to put down 1st and last months' rent and a deposit of one month's rent. Housing in Boston is VERY VERY expensive. This apartment is considered modestly priced even though it will cost over $2000 per month between rent and utilities. The good thing about this particular apartment is that it is right on the border of the BU campus...and it is very convenient. Many of DS's friends live in substandard housing, which is VERY costly, and is also not all that convenient to the campus. I will add, that in our college visits, we did NOT see a correlation at all between the cost of the housing and the quality of the dorms. The very nicest dorms we saw were at College of Charleston. Housing costs there were substantially less than at Boston University where the freshman housing is not all that terrific.</p>
<p>Agreed - I was making a general point. The differential is worse in some areas than others. So the question in your case is, is BU's charge of $10K over the cost of about $6.6K (635+100 * 9mo) for the apartment (I'm assuming that after roommates it's still substantially larger than the dorm and has a kitchen, LR, etc.) warranted, or do they just charge this because of the costs of the surrounding area regardless of the actual costs to the Uni to sustain those dorms? I think the U's seem to be charging what they feel they can get based on the surronding market regardless of their costs. The more expensive the surrounding area, the more they'll charge for the dorms regardless of the condition or amenities or actual costs of the dorms. Compare different areas of the country and it really comes to light. It's not easily explained away due to to cost of land either since in many cases, the land was no cost to the college or has been owned by them for 50-150 years. </p>
<p>I like the idea of dorm living for the first couple of years (at least) and went this route with my Ds but I just wish the colleges charged commensurate with their costs rather than charging (generally higher than) retail prices.</p>
<p>P.S. We also have to buy all the furniture in that apartment (roommates will share the responsibility...but still) and move it in and out. Honestly with having to find the subletter, it's a hassle. The BU apartments are nice, furnished, clean, air conditioned, secure, heated, all utilities included, and if something breaks you just call the head resident...not a rental company that is virtually no help...or a landlord who gets there when he feels like it. DD is going to school in the Bay area of CA...off campus housing is outrageously priced there too.</p>
<p>Thumper, if you want to make yourself feel a little better--at least your son will have start up furniture and small appliances when he finishes school. My oldest who married last summer and his wife had most everything they needed left from college apartments :).</p>
<p>Regarding furniture - my D hit garage sales and managed to find most pieces (desk, chairs, coffee table, end tables, etc.) for about $20 each so the furniture cost in her case was negligible and was still superior to what the dorms had to offer. </p>
<p>If you feel that you're getting a good value in the dorms, then great. I still feel that they should generally be charging less for it.</p>
<p>josiemax, I agree most first-years are better served in a dorm; however, it's hard to defend the cost. Apartment dwellers also benefit from police and fire protection, and of course the tax-dollar cost is covered in their rent. Also, it could be argued that an especially sheltered or just-plain-well-behaved kid might be safer sharing an apartment with a friend than sharing communal spaces with unbalanced, diseased, promiscuous, binge-drinking meth heads ... well, enough cheeriness.</p>
