<p>We appealed the FA package at my son's first choice school. They raised the grant a little, but took away his subsidized loan and replaced it with a private loan. (They said they had to do that, though we're not sure why. We don't think the reason can be federal need regulations, since another school of same caliber gave him the same grant plus 2 subsidized loans.) Regardless, the new package still isn't enough for us to be able to send him. S will be going to admitted student days this week anyway and is considering stopping in at the FA office to ask for more. Has anyone ever gotten more by asking twice?</p>
<p>I have not heard of that happening. Seems to me that your son would be better off falling in love with another college that he can afford.</p>
<p>GFG, We had a similar experience on the first appeal, but with some different twists. We sent in an offer from another school and the school increased their merit scholarship rather than fincancial aid, and then they increased the gpa to keep that scholarship from 2.7 to 3.0. Lastly, they took away work-study and the subsidized stafford. The amount of the merit increase was only 2500, so we really gained little. He is not attending this school. Did they really think that this would entice him? It was kind of strange.</p>
<p>That is really weird. Doesn't make any sense. Did you show them the offer from the other school??? That may help some?? Good Luck :)</p>
<p>We tried to re-appeal a written appeal via phone call, but no luck. They actually seemed pretty annoyed that we asked about it, although the increase was meager. Hmmm. (Don't do me any more favors, please!)</p>
<p>I am in the appeal process now and they meet tomorrow UGH!! I'll let you know what happens. I guess it is worth trying to appeal but can't get your hopes up. Any others out there with any luck???? It is getting close to the May 1st deadline so it has to be hard to appeal twice! I can't believe they gave you info over the phone. My school won't. They said I had to wait for their response by letter!! More time and getting close to deadlines?? Hmmmmm</p>
<p>kmh: Yes, we did show them offers from four other schools since theirs was the worst of any we had received. Even schools whose offers we didn't bother showing them were significantly better. We do love the college in every other way, but I felt as though the FA office was saying: "So, you want more aid, do you? Fine, here's a little more. But it will cost you and that will make you think twice before asking for an increase ever again." (Frankly, I'm not sure how much better the new package even is, once we add in the interest the government would have paid for the four years under the old offer.) And we did do our best to follow all the CC advice about making an appeal. We were very nice in the letter, thanked them for the original package, didn't use the word "negotiate" or "match," etc. The funniest thing was, when they commented on taking away the subsidized loan, they claimed it was because of the "extensive" professional judgment. We're grateful for the little bit extra, but as northeastmom says, did they really think that would seal the deal? They were still short $16,000 from the best offer.</p>
<p>kmh, they didn't entertain an appeal over the phone. I simply called to see if we had any further recourse to their minimal offer. They pretty much said that the official letter was it and don't try to ask for any more. :(</p>
<p>What are the colleges that are involved? Some colleges guarantee to meet 100% of your documented financial need, some do not. Some have more money to provide grants with, some have to provide the bulk of aid in loans.</p>
<p>Also, if the colleges are not equally ranked, and the one offering the lower amount of money is higher ranked than the more generous one, the higher ranked college may not feel it has cause to increase its offer. It may know that most students will select it over the rival, and if your student doesn't, the college still easily will fill its class.</p>
<p>In our case, the first choice school is an Ivy, as was the school I mentioned that gave subsidized loans along with the same grant amount. They both claim to meet 100% need, I believe, and both had the same information from us. Obviously, they made different decisions about what our need was. The school that made the highest offer is not an Ivy, but is a top LAC. We wouldn't expect an Ivy to match that offer, but were hoping they'd bridge the gap a little more. We suspect that their thought process was along the lines of Northstarmom's post above. They really don't need to entice us because they have a waiting list of students dying to take his spot--some of which may not require FA at all!</p>
<p>I guess they figured b/c they are an ivy, that offer seals the deal, and if it doesn't there are many in line for the spot. The school that I was talking about was more like a third tier LAC and it was a safety school for my son, which is why I don't get it.</p>
<p>I agree. You would think they would want to try a little harder to have your son decide to attend. Unless they figured he would likely go to a better school anyway?</p>
<p>TheGFG
That really stinks and I agree with the fact that they are an IVY and know that there are kids that don't need the aid that can take your spot. We have two almost identical schools- both liberal arts- both only meet 93% need and totally different offers. The difference is $8500. We are appealing it and should hear shortly. My son has the mentality that even if the school doesn't give us any more or even just a little-he still is going. I wonder if maybe the schools recognize this fact. I don't agree with my son as he has to take out the additional loans and will have almost $33,000 more debt after four years if he chooses this school. I could ring his neck!! :0
Some schools use the CSS profile and FAfsa method when figuring finanial aid and some only use the fAfsa.If the schools you are considering use different methods that could be why your offers are soo different. It is going to vary all over the place from school to school as I am sure you see-It is way over my head that is for sure. It is like a small corporation. I hope your son has some luck when he stops by in person to the financial aid office- he may get somewhere just by showing up in person-you never know-what do you have to loose? Best of luck</p>
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That really stinks and I agree with the fact that they are an IVY and know that there are kids that don't need the aid that can take your spot.
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<p>I think that it is a little disingenuous to paint schools using such broad strokes because that is not always the case. I personally know a # of students and parents here on CC that requested FA reviews at many of the Ivies and got them (one parent ran her #s by columbia, got an estimate and made an appeal before her son applied ED).</p>
<p>I also think that NSM's comments about schools being equally ranked does hold some weight. I guess the kicker is what really consitiutes an equally ranked school?</p>
<p>when my D was a freshman I did request and got a FA appeal from Dartmout stating that she recieved a "better" offer from williams (although my D's "best packages came from Bryn Mawr and Tufts). Dartmouth met the williams package in reducing my EFC, increasing the grant aid and reducing her loans. </p>
<p>I think that we were also very fortunate in knowing before we requested the appeal that there was a lot of overlap in students admitted to Dartmouth , williams and Amherst (the dean of admissions and FA at williams actually stating that there was a 50/50 split when it came to students choosing between williams and Dartmouth did not hurt either. The Amherst package was one of the worse overall). </p>
<p>Although Bryn Mawr gave a package to die for (I had to sit down when I read it becasue I could not beleive it) I would not have considered using their package in appealing the package that D received.</p>
<p>I remember telling a couple of students in last year's cycle don't be afraid to request a FA review because the worse that could happen is that the school says no. I know that last year there was a student choosing between Dartmouth and Swat did recieve an appeal in addition to a student choosing between Notre Dame and Dartmouth (about $4,000).</p>
<p>I think another thing to consider is how much $ were you looking for the school to meet? The overall diference between the 2 schools was only a few thousand $$ but for us it made all of the difference. I do think that schools look at packages differently if you are only requesting a 'small' gap to be filled vs. a "large' gap.</p>
<p>Both of the schools in question use the FAFSA and the profile. Sybbie, they did "match" the other Ivy's grant, but I guess the loan change felt like a slap in the face to us. It's possible they may not have had a choice given their institutional regulations, and perhaps we are wrong in feeling that way. I guess the fact that the other Ivy could give subsidized loans with that same grant level contributed to the feeling that they really don't care that much.</p>
<p>We did not outright request a specific dollar amount, though I think we did intimate how much we needed.</p>
<p>So what is a reasonable amount to expect a school to increase aid on appeal when using a package from a competing school? And do the other Ivies even bother trying to match Princeton, since Princeton clearly gives the best packages?</p>
<p>TheGFG, it looks like what they did was replace loans with grants without changing their view of EFC. You might want to ask for someone from the financial aid department to go over the figures with you -- not as part of an appeal, but just as an explanation of how they are arriving at numbers. For example, you might ask how the school treats home equity. </p>
<p>I doubt that you are going to get a better award that way, though there is an off chance that it will show where there may have been an error made in basic figures used. </p>
<p>But it is very typical for supposed 100% need awards to vary widely. For each of my kids, the best awards also came from the most selective, top-choice colleges -- so I never had anything better to offer by way of a competing awards from similar colleges. But I still wanted to understand clearly where the numbers were coming from -- so I simply wrote out my questions and asked for the opportunity to discuss the award.</p>