drinking code violation: this is ridiculous

Parents Forum
61

<p>I don't believe in blue laws. I think that pot should be legalized and so should alcohol.</p>

<p>I think that there SHOULD be stringent laws if one is DUI, including operation of ANY vehicle, including boats. Do what you want on your own time, kill yourself if you want, but do NOT endanger other people. Smoke yourself to death if you want, but do not smoke in public enclosed places. </p>

<p>Colleges and HSs are, IMHO, being required to bear the brunt of adjudicating the results of our society's inability to be rational and consistent about drug use, whether that drug be coffee, alcohol, pot, cigarettes, or heroin.</p>

<p>The result is this kind of foolish blanket penalty for people who aren't even indulging.</p>

<p>It's like term limits. There is a cure for excessive tenure by incompetent or corrupt incumbents: it's called elections. Term limits are a pitiful excuse for lazy citizens.</p>

62

<p>Many have come down really hard on the college presidents who want to open discussion on drinking age. It is really just a joke that colleges are forced to spend so much time handling how do deal with alcohol, which the use of doesn't seem to have have changed one iota from our days in college when 18 was legal. I do wonder how many of the deaths and accidents that happen every year on college campuses are due to driving the drinking underground. I was very relieved to learn my freshman's college has a good sam policy allowing kids to seek help with no penalty. Do most schools now do this?</p>

63

<p>Times have certainly changed. </p>

<p>When I was an undergrad (early 80s) the drinking age in my state was 21. I went to a private university that allowed alcohol. We had hall parties at which each room served a different drink, room parties with kegs, lounge parties, etc. Of course there were many students who chose not to partake and to my best recollection nobody put any pressure on them to drink.</p>

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<p>This situation aside, "kids lie" is a disturbing generalization. I know that a lot of people lie, a lot of kids lie, and a lot of parents have kids who lie. ON the other hand a lot of people, including kids, don't lie, don't like liars, and can spot a lie a mile off. And some people don't lie because they're just bad liars. I know that in general one cannot assume that kids, or anyone else, won't lie to get out of a bad situation, but let's not throw around "kids lie" or "people lie" as if everyone does or would. I don't. I know a lot of people, kids and adults, who don't. I also know a lot who do, regularly, about things that it doesn't even make sense to lie about. Some people just tend to lie. Some don't. </p>

<p>A funny, true, story:</p>

<p>Once there were two 4-year-old boy identical twins left in a room with two glasses of milk. The adult left the room. When he came back, one of the glasses of milk was spilled. The adult said "Who spilled their milk?" One of the twins said, "I'm not going to say who it was, but it wasn't me."</p>

65

<p>I totally agree that this is stupid and these kind of rules serve no purpose. I have always hated when the many get punished for the infractions of the few.
On a more practical note, if the adjudication does not work, maybe you can check about this being on her record. As someone above suggested, the first violation may not be something that sticks forever -- kind of like a speeder getting his ticket erased from his record for insurance purposes if she doesn't get any more infractions for six months or a year.</p>

66

<p>i think this is ridiculous. the substance itself Is not illegal. Alcohol is not like marijuana.....she wasn't in possession and was not drinking therefore should not be prosecuted. I would fight it. Go meet with them. Threaten getting an attorney...saying it is prohibited to be in sight of alcohol is ridiculous. That is too much of a burden and being in sight of alcohol would mean she can't go anywhere.</p>

67

<p>I think on CC we should compile a list of schools that have strict (ridiculous) rules. It is something for parents/students to be aware when they are selecting schools. When I am spending 50,000/year, I wouldn't want my kid to worry about walking into land mines everywhere she turns. The last thing I would want is to have something like this on my kid's record, especially if it's undeserved.</p>

68

<p>You think that's bad? I, along with several other people got written up for being in a room (albeit one where NO ONE was drinking) with an empty bottle of alcohol. Yeah, BU is a total joke with their 'RA police force'. Glad I'm out of there.</p>

69

<p>oldfort --agree - I'd like to know whatt school this was as well! </p>

<p>I would think it makes it hard to become "settled" at a college like this -- how incredibly awkward to be put in this situation on a frequent basis.
Single, anyone?</p>

70

<p>
[quote]
I would think it makes it hard to become "settled" at a college like this -- how incredibly awkward to be put in this situation on a frequent basis.
Single, anyone?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The issue I mentioned above included an incident that had me in a situation where I could either lie to the RAs, or rat out my roommate. Caused a big problem, and I eventually transferred out anyway. I have a single this year at Temple. Life is good.</p>

71

<p>
[quote]
I think on CC we should compile a list of schools that have strict (ridiculous) rules. It is something for parents/students to be aware when they are selecting schools. When I am spending 50,000/year, I wouldn't want my kid to worry about walking into land mines everywhere she turns. The last thing I would want is to have something like this on my kid's record, especially if it's undeserved.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree with oldfort.</p>

<p>Here is another thread, but the content of the situation has not been discussed:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/445749-what-every-parent-must-read-asap.html?highlight=finger+lakes%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/445749-what-every-parent-must-read-asap.html?highlight=finger+lakes&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>and from the same poster:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Hi, I thought I would introduce myself here to start. I'm from Upstate New York and have put 2 children through college and one still trying to finish. My first graduated from a very good private school in PA (now making more than dad) the second attended a state school and learning a tough lesson about life. My last has been expelled for something she didn't do, doesn't have a clue how or why it all happened but the college accused her of it so life is trying to go on.</p>

<p>My mission is to inform parents and students of what the colleges don't want to tell you. They have powers above and beyond the law but allowed by the courts. While in College they can take your kids civil rights and due process away from them. They can accuse your kids of just about anything without cause. The results can be very costly and harmful to students health and wealth throughout their lives. </p>

<p>If anyone needs more information on the subject I am more than willing to give you very helpful information on this subject. Please email me via the board rules.

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</p>

72

<p>Lets remember too, that student chose this school with the good and the bad. It wasn't like a judge sentenced student to attend there. Although I agree with all that it's unfortunate Op's offspring is likely to get reprimand I cannot say it was unfair. A big no. 1 reason is because I haven't read schools' policy on drinking. It would be ridiculous of me to determine fair or not without knowing that.
Secondly, I am skeptical of what a student- or most adults- tell me when they are in the position of getting in trouble. Some will lie, or tell partial truths, or "shade" their story in hopes of keeping out of trouble. When student says they had just entered the room and saw others drinking when they got busted, I'd be a bit suspect. Did the RA hit student in the butt as RA opened the door- as student was still in doorway? Does student define just entered as hadn't even said hello, or as 15 minutes, or as 30 minutes or what? Just entered is awfully vague to me, given the circumstances.
If the policy is no student to be in a room with drinking then this student absolutely is guilty. Not a technicality- guilty. If the policy is different then the determination is different. I'm not perfect but I'm trying to teach my S responsibility. If you were wrong, pay the price, learn from it and go on. Our family has chosen not to try to wrangle every loophole to minimize punishment for a wrong.</p>

73

<p>If she was not drinking, then she is not guilty. It is not her responsibility to snitch on those kids. It is the school's responsibility to do the policing. Whether she was drinking or not, it could be determine with a very easy test.</p>

<p>If you see a car speeding, is it your responsibility to report to the police? If you happened to be in the car, would you get in trouble if you didn't report the driver. If the driver was DWI or DUI, would you get in trouble with the law if you did nothing (you may die, but you wouldn't go to jail or have it on your record). I am not sure what we are teaching our kids here.</p>

74

<p>Heron, I would have her make an appointment with the Dean of Students to express everything conveyed here.</p>

<p>Yes, rules are in place for a reason and any number of parents would call to complain or even sue even if their kids were drinking. However, she wasn't drinking, was only there for a moment before realizing what was going on, and she wants this off her record. I feel it is also important that she makes the point that she had already been inconvenienced in an attempt to follow the rules and that the whole thing is unfair and puts kids in a no win situation. I assume you're paying quite a bit for room and board for a room she can't even remain in based on whatever her roomie is doing. If the school is going to do this, then they should be sure they're pairing up kids that don't drink. At least in their rooms.</p>

<p>It won't be easy for her, it's never easy for a young adult to meet with authority figures even when they're right, but I feel that is her best chance for clearing her record.</p>

75

<p>I've been quietly reading these posts and felt it was necessary to chime in. Some of the same behaviors deemed unnecessary (ratting out a roommate) are part of every day life. In the business world, there will be times that you have to police other employees. If you are unwilling to turn them in for violations, your job is at jeparody as well. In real life, being in the wrong place at the wrong time can mean an arrest and possibly jail time...ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law.</p>

<p>In the real world, having a passenger in your vehicle who is holding drugs can mean your car is seized and you are arrested....even if you honestly did not know that person had drugs on their person. </p>

<p>In the real world, if you have a roommate (after college graduation) who brings illegal drugs into your residence or serves alcohol to minors in your home, you can be arrested and face jail time.</p>

<p>Any time we expose ourselves to those within society, we run the risk of getting into trouble for something we did not do or did not know about. While I feel for this ADULT...its only one of many more difficult decisions she will need to make in her life. We keep referring to our college aged children as kids...but they are indeed adults and about to embark on the BIG world, all by themselves. This is how colleges are treating them....as adults. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time doesn't make you automatically innocent. Knowing that alcohol is forbidden in dorms rooms doesn't mean you keep your mouth shut when roomies "sneak" booze into your room.</p>

<p>Realistically, most of these college students with booze are probably underage..and committing a CRIME. It doesn't matter if we think that the drinking age should be reduced. It doesn't matter if we think the institution's policy is too strict. Underage drinking is a CRIME and to turn a blind eye to that fact is really doing our children a disservice.</p>

<p>Life is all about making the right decisions, and unfortunately, making the right decision is sometimes difficult.</p>

76

<p>I guess my question is, what is the school's policy? What did the adult (if 18 or over) student sign?</p>

<p>It's all well and good to debate the value of various policies regarding alcohol, but if the policy is that if there is alcohol being served in your under-aged presence you are in trouble, and you agreed to the policy, that's the end of the discussion, as far as I am concerned.</p>

<p>I say this as the parent of a kid whose dorm suite I have visited. I am not naive. But if my kid gets caught with a beer, he'll get popped, and have to deal with the consequences. Welcome to the real world.</p>

<p>If your student feels the policies are unjust, then let them fight the good fight, as those who have practiced civil disobedience have for generations (accepting the consequences of that disobedience, btw). </p>

<p>FWIW, I think the current movement to raise the drinking age is a huge cop-out by the school administrations who can't deal with the illegal drinking issues on their campuses. In the meantime, the rules are what they are, and those who chose to violate them will have to deal with the consequences if they get caught.</p>

<p>If the daughter of the OP had asked that everyone who was drinking illegally leave her room (at least) then that could have been the end of it. Tough to do, but possible. Case in point: my just-turned-21 yo son was visiting his younger brother. There was an activity at a friend's apartment - off-campus but affiliated. 21 yo son bought a six-pack (at midnight on his birthday) and brought it to the apartment. The host told him that was "not cool" and asked him to take the six-pack out of the apartment. 21-yo, who has spent 3 years at a party school living off-campus thought this was RIDICULOUS - but he COMPLIED!!! (mom, btw, is thinking WTG KID!!!!!) So kids CAN stand up to peer pressure, and request that those in their lodgings comply with the rules.</p>

<p>Then, if they disagree, petition the powers that be to change those rules. Or choose not to comply, and accept the consequences.</p>

77

<p>The difference here is a dorm room is not your property. You and your roommate signed a separate rental agreement with the school. You could sue the school for letting people to reside on their property that would conduct illegal behavior. What about putting the responsibility on the school to make sure you wouldn't be exposed to illegal behavior. Shouldn't the school have done a better job of screening its students (tenants) before they were allowed to live there?</p>

<p>The examples you have given do not apply here. The OP's daughter did not allow drinking in her room. The OP's daughter did not buy the alcohol or drink the alcohol in someone else' room. She did not violate any real life rules.</p>

<p>No one is saying we should turn a blind eye, what I am saying is it should not be the students responsibility.</p>

78

<p>
[quote]
There was an activity at a friend's apartment - off-campus but affiliated. 21 yo son bought a six-pack (at midnight on his birthday) and brought it to the apartment. The host told him that was "not cool" and asked him to take the six-pack out of the apartment. 21-yo, who has spent 3 years at a party school living off-campus thought this was RIDICULOUS - but he COMPLIED!!! (mom, btw, is thinking WTG KID!!!!!)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What a loser...</p>

79

<p>I do agree with what some people have said that if it's stated in a school's handbook that you are not allowed to be in any room where there is alcohol when you are under aged, and you agreed to attend that school, then you need to live up to that agreement. That is why I suggested we should be aware of those schools, so we could make educated choice when we decide where we want to spend our 50,000.</p>

80

<p>She left her room because of a party that was being held in which booze was present. Nothing has been stated to say that she had objected to their bringing booze into her room. If her roomies were underage, then she witnessed a crime, did not report the crime and therefore, condoned the activity. When you share a room with someone else, the entire common area is your room. Therefore, she should have taken a stand or informed administration that rules were being broken in her room. If, after informing administration, she had been busted, she would better be able to claim innocence.</p>

<p>I know this problem first hand...being busted for doing nothing. When I was in high school (17 years ago), a group of my friends were hanging around on campus smoking. I was hanging with them but not smoking. The Vice Principal saw our group and every one of us was busted. When I cried fowl, it made NO difference. I knew the rules and should not have stuck around when the first person lit their cigarette....but I chose to stay and therefore, had to face the consequences....guilt by association.</p>

<p>As an adult, I attended a private LAC that held very strict alcohol policies...NO drinking, on or off campus, by ANY student (traditional or adult distance learner). I knew this was the policy, I agreed to it when I signed by final paperwork to attend. About a year later at a Financial Aid Conference, I sat one table over from my (student) school's FA team. I was drinking wine and beer with co-workers from my work school. I knew full well that I could be expelled from school for drinking...and that was a chance I was willing to take (keep in mind that I was 31 years old when this occured.) I was legally drinking, not drunk, on a non-school related activity, 4.5 hours from the campus, wearing my work school's information...but I was still bound to my student schools policies. Fortunately for me, they didn't realize I was one of their students...or I would have been expelled.</p>