Driving A Hard Bargain . . .

<p>D is considering an offer at William and Mary. She also has offers at two other public colleges, either of which would be half the price of W&M. When we applied, we did not seek any financial aid. We were offered no merit aid at any of the three schools.</p>

<p>We can pay for this. We, uh . . . we just don't want to pay for this. :)</p>

<p>In other words, we are feeling like we should negotiate a discount of some sort. Paying full sticker price just seems like we are being taken for a bit of a ride, you know? Kind of like how you don't just accept the first offer, how you don't pay full price for a car, etc.</p>

<p>Is there any room at all to negotiate in this process and at this stage? It feels a little weird even to ask the question because, in this economic and demographic environment, D should lie prone on the ground and thank the Almight every day for getting her admitted to a school that suits her. Besides, W&M is already 20% less than many elite schools, which makes us lucky x 2.</p>

<p>Should we just pay full price, or should we try to negotiate, and if so, how? A part of me is going to feel like a chump if we don't try, but it also feels a little greedy to try . . .</p>

<p>Cindy -- who never seems to get a deal on much of anything</p>

<p>This is kinda creepy to me i.e. “lie prone on the ground”. You did know the cost of the school, but you did not fill out any FA forms? I think that leaves you no wiggle room.</p>

<p>You don’t say what the other two schools are, so how can anyone compare or comment? I hope your dd knew going in that you didn’t want to pay for this school. It makes a lot of sense to me to go for the better ‘deal’ since you won’t value overpaying.</p>

<p>First of all, congrats on your D getting into some great school choices!</p>

<p>As far as your question, I’m not clear what you’d base your negotiation on. Since you didn’t apply for aid, where is there room to negotiate? Negotiation is usually based on either giving additional information that was not emphasized or considered in the initial aid offer, or, sometimes with *some *schools, comparing FA or Merit awards.</p>

<p>There’s no reason why you should feel like a “chump” if you decide to pay full price for W and M. Not everyone gets aid; many don’t qualify. The car buying analogy is a red herring (how many car companies turn down most of their potential buyers, or maintain waitlists).</p>

<p>Why would paying the price you knew they were asking make you feel like you are being “taken for a ride”? I’d say make the decision of which school based on your family wishes and finances, but do not expect the prices are going to change.</p>

<p>If something major has happened to you financially (aside from the general stock market crash, unless you had all your money with Madoff or something)-- ie a layoff, significant medical expenses, having to provide suddenly for an aging parent, etc, since you first applied, you might… <em>might</em>… ask if you can now submit a FAFSA/CSS with explananation, for them to consider. However, my guess is that they’ll tell you you can do that for <em>next</em> year, but that it is too late to do anything right now for her first semester costs in fall, 2009.</p>

<p>^Well, legally you can definitely still fill out a FAFSA, and be eligible for any federal aid it triggers, but given the facts as presented, it’s unlikely you would get any, since fed aid has fairly low income cutoffs.</p>

<p>There is always room for negotiation.</p>

<p>In this case the negotiating would not be with the colleges but rather with your daughter. If you are leaning toward one of the two publics for an overall cost value she could do that or she could attend your local community college for one or two years and then transfer either to one of those two publics (and reapply) or transfer to Wiiliam and Mary after a year or two at the cc where she could complete a substantial portion of her GE/Core requirements and probably be able to maintain a stellar GPA.</p>

<p>Since she was offered no merit aid as a freshman you would not be losing any of the “freshman” scholarships. This would save a substantial amount of money based on savings in tuition and room and board.</p>

<p>Of course this is based on you negotiating with her. If you are willing to pay for her most expensive option out-of-pocket NOW what should she be negotiating for in return. If she is just concerned about the money saved then she might not be interested in anything else but saving the money.</p>

<p>Did your family apply for any financial aid at all?</p>

<p>Did you apply to many schools where her stats put her in the top 75% of the pool in order to up her chances of receiving merit aid at ANY of those schools? It just takes one merit aid offer to gain some leverage. Sometimes it might take 5-10 apps to other schools in order to gain a merit award of any significance.</p>

<p>If she is happy to attend one of the other two publics she was accepted to then there is a 50% savings when compared to her other choice. She again would be the one you would be negotiating with, not the schools.</p>

<p>When appealing a financial aid offer there are usually meritous grounds/new needs/new info in order to justify the appeal and have it be somewhat successful. And if you have IN-HAND another offer from a comparable institution that is making the ability to attend more reasonable THEN you can ask.</p>

<p>And in order to do ALL this it requires quite a bit of work (actually a sizeable amount of homework needed to be done forehand). This is why on many of the threads here on CC there are students who have applied to 12+ schools in the search for merit aid. They cast a wide and varied net in order to increase their chances of receiving merit aid to help reduce their costs with respect to educational value.</p>

<p>The negotiating would have been between you and your daughter about how many schools she wanted to apply to vs. how much outlay there would have been for application fees, additional tests to up stats in return for significant merit aid. </p>

<p>Time for money.</p>

<p>She still has options, and great ones at that!! I hope you both enjoy the decision-making process and love her outcome and college choice!!!</p>

<p>CONGRATS!!</p>

<p>Kat</p>

<p>It’s unlikely that you’ll be able to work a deal with the other college. Public colleges tend not to act that way. In addition, since W&M is the more expensive school, I’m assuming the other colleges are less highly ranked. Colleges are more likely to match offers of schools more highly ranked than they are. </p>

<p>I think that you’ll need to bite the bullet and pay while being very glad that your D got into W&M, which is darned hard to gain an acceptance to. Since you can pay, and since finances hadn’t been a consideration when your D applied, I don’t suggest forcing your D to go to her less preferred college. That could lead to her resenting you for a long time.</p>

<p>Also, when it comes to public colleges most people are full pay or get some need-based aid. However, virtually all public colleges gap aid, so most students with need-based aid may have hefty private loans, too. The “discount” with public colleges is that they tend to cost less than private colleges.</p>

<p>William and Mary has an excellent reputation among my circle of friends and students have applied there full pay who have applied to other schools as needing FA, with the idea W&M was a great deal (actually affordable for these families!) and not applying for FA made admission more likely. I do not believe W&M is need blind. And some applicants from out of state may get accepted because they are able to pay. And are quite grateful to be admitted. At least, that is what people I know think and how they have approached this particular school.</p>

<p>I’m not sure what grounds you’d have, other than that you just don’t want to pay full price. No need for need-based aid, no offer of merit scholarships. Not sure where you’d take that. </p>

<p>Full price is a lot of money, and I know that when you hear about other people who are offered good aid packages or merit scholarships, it’s hard not to compare. Sometimes we’ve just gotta suck it up and fork it over. Ouch. </p>

<p>But just think: You are in the amazing position of being able to pay for your kid’s college education without (it sounds like) a problem. What a great situation to be in! Everyone here can tell you about a friend or relative or their own kid who was just accepted to a college he/she really wants to go to, with no offer of aid of any kind, and parents who can’t afford to foot the bill. </p>

<p>How lucky you are. I know you know that.</p>

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<p>Although this board is very informative, this seems to me a problem. When I first started reading threads here six or seven years ago, parents expressed shock and awe when their children were offered merit awards and many were seemingly amazed need based awards existed and were available to them. Now reading, you might almost assume practically everyone gets great discounts off “sticker price.” Probably the truth is somewhere in the middle.</p>

<p>Good Luck with the decision, Cindy!</p>

<p>"Now reading, you might almost assume practically everyone gets great discounts off “sticker price.” "</p>

<p>WHen it comes to private colleges, I believe the majority of students get some kind of merit aid, which some also call “discounts”. That’s not true of public colleges.</p>

<p>^^I am too far removed from the process to have any books on hand – but more than 50% of students at private colleges get merit aid??</p>

<p>I"d be surprised by this, too.</p>

<p>I don’t think you have a lot of negotiating room, but I don’t see that it would hurt to have dd call and say, “We didn’t apply for financial aid initially, but after weighing offers from other schools, we’re wondering whether there’s any wiggle room for you to offer me some aid.”</p>

<p>In checking the facts, I was wrong in saying that “a majority” of private college students get merit aid. However, a sizeable minority at many private colleges do get merit aid. Colleges have found that students are more likely to accept admission offers if they get merit aid, even if that merit aid is money that otherwise they would have been given via need-based financial aid.</p>

<p>"Albright College, in Reading, Pa., had been splitting its financial aid budget evenly between need-based aid and merit aid. But this year, it will tip the balance toward merit, with 60 percent. The college used to send offers of merit aid shortly after it mailed acceptance letters; this year, it sent them together in hopes of winning students over early.</p>

<p>Many colleges discount tuition an average of 30 to 40 percent. Still, by offering even a relatively small cut, colleges get students who pay a hefty price.</p>

<p>“The full-pays are few and far between,” said Greg Eichhorn, the vice president for enrollment management at Albright. “What we’re looking for are better-pays.”</p>

<p>Some schools have tried to reduce their merit-aid budgets over the last several years, arguing that an emphasis on need-based aid was more philosophically in line with their goals of getting a more diverse student body. But economic pressures may delay those aims.</p>

<p>At Dickinson College, in Carlisle, Pa., for example, merit aid, at its highest, made up about 22 percent of the financial-assistance pie. The share declined to 6 percent two years ago, but crept up to 7 percent last year and will increase to 8 percent for next year’s entering class.</p>

<p>“The families I’m concerned about are the near-misses — the $90,000 to $130,000 families, who almost qualify for aid but not quite,” said Robert J. Massa, the college’s vice president for enrollment. “Those are the families I want to target more merit-based aid to.”…"</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/education/28college.html?em=&pagewanted=all[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/education/28college.html?em=&pagewanted=all&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>This article indicates that public universities discount by having programs like Georgie’s HOPE scholarship, that provides merit-based aid to top in-state students regardless of their financial need.</p>

<p>This year, however, due to the economy, public universities may have to worry about having too high a yield as families turn to lower cost options than private colleges.</p>

<p>"Private institutions discount far more than public ones, but the publics are catching on; about a dozen state universities, especially in the South, are replicating Georgia’s Hope Scholarships, which subsidize students with high grades – even if their families can afford to pay full freight. Dr. Lapovsky was dismayed when she gave a recent seminar on tuition discounting and half the 150 people who signed up were from public universities. As universities reduce services and raise tuition in response to state budget cuts, she says, public institutions see discounts as a way to continue to attract top students.</p>

<p>Some colleges argue that aggressive discounting has allowed them to build more prestigious and, ultimately, better institutions. George Washington University, for example, spends about $100 million a year on merit and need-based scholarships. Stephen J. Trachtenberg, its president, credits merit aid with attracting more National Merit Scholars and improving its yield – that is, the percentage of students who accept offers of admission. Both helped the university rise from unranked to 51st in U.S. News rankings…"</p>

<p>[What</a> a Deal! - The New York Times](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/09/education/what-a-deal.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all]What”>http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/09/education/what-a-deal.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)</p>

<p>College educations are worth the money -you get what you pay for (whether it would be a better education or more prestige I don’t know)</p>

<p>Thanks cindysphinx for asking this question. I don’t know the answer to your question, and I am eager to read the replies in preparation for next year. </p>

<p>I guess the question is, does William and Mary have a lot of students on the waitlist who are willing to take your daughter’s spot and pay full price for it?</p>

<p>^That’s one good question, but remember, too, that all schools accept more students than they need. Not taking one’s “spot” (a problematic concept) doesn’t necessarily leave a vacancy which would necessitate a move to the wait list. That depends on how yield goes.</p>

<p>Since W&M is a public school in a year in which an overabundance of students are turning to public schools for economic reasons, I have the feeling that W&M is more concerned about too high a yield than too low a yield.</p>

<p>Northstarmom: Thank you for posting that information. This is really interesting and perhaps useful for parents just beginning the process.</p>

<p>Does any know the percentages of students at private schools who are full pay vs FA/merit and how many of the merit awards are actually need based awards? – which probably wouldn’t be available to the OP? Since I have two nieces applying next year, who will not qualify for FA, this is potentially very useful information for our family.</p>