<p>alh, I’d like to see what Northstarmom thinks, too, but I’ll throw in my two cents. Iit depends so much on the private school. Many top private schools (Ivies or schools like Georgetown and Tufts) give no merit awards at all, something a lot of parents do not understand. Other private schools are very generous with merit aid.</p>
<p>And some public schools are generous with merit aid.</p>
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<p>Sometimes it’s possible to negotiate need-based financial aid by showing special circumstances. But getting a tuition discount when you didn’t even apply for financial aid simply because now you “don’t want to pay for this”? Not possible.</p>
<p>Welcome to the world of full-freight-paying families.</p>
<p>You can check the Common Data Set which each college has on their website. It will give the number of financial aid students, and if any merit aid is given. Sometimes the CDS is buried a bit in the sites, so you may have to search/google it.</p>
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<p>I agree with this.</p>
<p>“Does any know the percentages of students at private schools who are full pay vs FA/merit and how many of the merit awards are actually need based awards? – which probably wouldn’t be available to the OP? Since I have two nieces applying next year, who will not qualify for FA, this is potentially very useful information for our family.”</p>
<p>There’s no way to find out what percentage of merit aid awards really are need based.</p>
<p>The breakdown of colleges financial aid and merit awards is in their common data sets. The easiest way to get this info is to pay $15 to access until Aug. the U.S. News college guide’s on-line site, which has detailed info about thousands of college in the U.S. It’s the same info that’s in the colleges’ common data sets --including detailed info about admissions stats – but it’s much easier to access and understand.</p>
<p>Do realize, however, that due to the economy, many colleges are making major changes this year in how they give merit aid, and admit students. For instance late in the admissions cycle, Bowdoin and Tufts stopped admitting students on a need-blind basis. I don’t think that these changes will be included in the U.S. News info or common data set info that will be posted later this year. I think that info is always a year behind because the data is still being calculated.</p>
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<p>And these families are going to keep paying more every year as colleges keep increasing their tuition even as they increase their financial aid packages. In effect, the full freight paying families will continue to subsidize education for those who qualify for financial aid.</p>
<p>I’m okay with this, just as I’m okay with increasing the tax rate on the top bracket. But it will still hurt to write the checks.</p>
<p>It’s called “buyer’s remorse.” Suck it up, pay the tuition. W&M is a wonderful school.</p>
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<p>I agree completely.</p>
<p>Per the Financial Aid website here ([William</a> & Mary - Costs & Financial Aid](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/admission/financialaid/index.php]William”>Financial Aid | Admission & Aid | William & Mary) ): The College of William and Mary has a long-standing commitment to meet 100 percent of the demonstrated financial need of undergraduate Virginians. The College lacks the resources to meet 100 percent of demonstrated need for all students, but For Virginia residents, we generally meet students’ full need, but have gaps in offers for some nonresident students. Like many institutions, we meet lower amounts of need in self-help and focus our grant money on higher need levels.</p>
<p>So there would seem to be little ability, not to mention desire, on the part of W & M as a public institution to bargain with OOS students. The Murray Scholars program is for 4 or 5 students annually, in the amount of instate tuition, room, board, and fees; the W&M Scholar Award is for instate tuition/fees, for students who have overcome adversity or will bring diversity to the campus. The Monroe Scholars program provides a one-time $3K grant for summer study. Thats it for merit money. I dont know where else the money to cover a discount would come from. The website does say that parent and student loans are still available.</p>
<p>Ive heard about people bargaining/negotiating for a more favorable financial aid or merit aid offer, but I wouldnt know where to begin, myself. (Yes, I hate buying cars. I would happily buy Saturns for the rest of my life if only to avoid the haggling.) Everyone I know whos done it successfully has had a personal consultation (either in person or by phone) with a finaid officer and produced additional information about expenses or income. </p>
<p>I love what kat says in post 6 above about negotiating with the student instead!</p>
<p>OP,
You always can save some money by asking your kid to work during summers and /or the school year, and to take out some loans to help pay for college.</p>
<p>I don’t see anything wrong with doing this. It’s also advantageous to the student because it gives them a better idea about finances and the work world, and even if they work menial jobs, that work experience will help them when they look for internships and post college professional jobs.</p>
<p>Even when I was doing it, I did not regret working during college – including during the summers and school year – to help pay for my dream school. I also paid off my loans promptly and on time.</p>
<p>I agree about negotiating with the student instead. Your time would be better spent on budgeting for 2009/2010–and involving your D in that process. Can she contribute from summer earnings? Work during the school year? She’s fortunate to have an OOS acceptance to such a great school. If paying full freight will not cause financial hardship for your family, I’m not sure why you’re reluctant to do it (unless the in-state possibilities would provide the same education for less money). </p>
<p>I don’t know about W&M, but my son’s OOS public has a variety of merit scholarships for current students–not huge, but still helpful. She should investigate that possibility at W&M, keep her GPA up, and apply for those next year.</p>
<p>Still thinking about merit aid and who gets it: My extremely subjective and anecdotal experience from my very small social group: only students with perfect GPA and perfect or near perfect SATs and national level awards, who are accepted to almost every school to which they apply, are offered merit awards at those schools which have merit awards available. And this is only when they apply to 10 or more schools so that the schools feel they have to compete for them.</p>
<p>Last year the young man who was number three in his class at our local high school (with an A average and having taken the most academically challenging curriculum; class rank may have been impacted by band classes which arent weighted), national merit commended student, captain of a sports team, Boys State, state level academic competition recognition, all round charming person did not get any merit scholarship money at our state university (not one of the more highly rated, competitive state ones!) or anywhere else. The family did not qualify for need based aid. </p>
<p>^^Hope this isn’t too off topic. But I’m a little concerned about this prevalence of merit aid idea. Maybe there really is a lot out there but it doesn’t seem so here.</p>
<p>Mayber your daughter got in to W&M because she is a full fare student. If you are not willing to pay, there are probably a few thousand other parents that are willing.</p>
<p>I think there are more full -fare paying students out there than you think. Not something you want to brag about, especially when it seems like a lot of your friends are getting merit aid.</p>
<p>OP - Congrats to your D for her fine acceptances. As others have stated, getting into W&M OOS is quite an accomplishment!</p>
<p>I find it difficult to be sympathetic to your “plight” however. W&M is not wealthy, and they try to be judicious with their aid monies. My D, whose stats put her at the 90th percentile of accepted students, was deferred from W&M. On her application she indicated she needed FA, and that was given as the reason for her deferral. I doubt her deferral was singular. So a cynic might interpret what you’re doing as boosting prospects for admittance by not requesting FA, and then demanding FA later after saying you didn’t need it. Fortunately I’m not a cynic. I’d encourage you to negotiate with the college … and post the outcome here.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is only perfect students who get merit money-- I think it is more targeting schools where your student is near the top of the heap. My son was given very generous merit awards at American University (the least selective school he applied to) and Tulane, but not a dime at WashU (a much more selective school). If you are interested in merit money, you must target during the application process-- look at that 25-75% range and if your student is above that 75% mark, merit money is far more likely.</p>
<p>To the OP, Interesting question. </p>
<p>I think this year you are limited to filing a FAFSA for loans. Past this year, you could apply for financial aid-- but you may want to consider having your daughter apply to be an RA or take on a pt job on campus for her expenses.</p>
<p>:heavy sigh:</p>
<p>Thank you all for your input and information. It looks like full freight it will be (and I like the name: Full Freight Family, or FFF). :)</p>
<p>Like I said, that is not a problem, but it really bothered me to contemplate that we might be the chumps who pay full freight out of ignorance when everyone with a brain negotiates something. It sounds like aid at public colleges doesn’t work that way, which will help me get/keep the right attitude about cutting the checks. Ya gotta keep in mind that we have never paid a penny for our kids’ educations, so the idea of suddenly cutting astronomical checks leaves us somewhat weak in the knees.</p>
<p>I also won’t be leaning on D to go to her other two choices (UMD in-state and College of Charleston OOS). If anything, I want her to make the best choice for her regardless of cost. What I do not want is a failed decision based on cost and a transfer application next year. That would kill me!</p>
<p>NewHope, I feel badly for your D. I hope it all works out for you, really. I can assure you that we weren’t trying to game the system, however. We didn’t apply for financial aid because we did not believe we would qualify for it, plain and simple. In my breathtaking ignorance, I did not know which schools would consider an application for aid to be a black mark.</p>
<p>Say, uh. It is awfully late to be asking this, but now I am curious. When we didn’t apply for financial aid to any school, I assumed this meant we were not applying for need-based financial aid. Did it also mean we didn’t wish to be considered for merit aid? I assumed merit aid was a possibility for us (perhaps at less competitive schools if not W&M) even if we didn’t file the forms for need-based aid.</p>
<p>I ask because D didn’t receive merit aid to College of Charleston, which I assumed was an extremely likely proposition based on the experience of a neighbor, who got a full tuition ride a few years back. Then again, we didn’t file for financial aid, so maybe that is why we didn’t receive any?</p>
<p>Cindy I don’t know why you think you’ll be a chump if you pay full freight. People who don’t qualify for need based aid and attend schools which don’t give merit aid all pay full freight. All of them. That’s tens of thousands of parents paying full freight.</p>
<p>If you don’t want your D to make a decision based on the price tag, and if you’ve ascertained that you can afford the tuition, you need to let your issues about the price take a back seat to this discussion with your D. Nobody likes paying tuition, but to reframe your question- aren’t you glad you didn’t lose your job two months ago, and are now in the position of telling your child that she won’t be going to college next year since you’ll need her folding sweaters at the Gap to help you make your mortgage payments?</p>
<p>Yes, Blossom. Now that I understand how it all works, I think I can go ahead and pay full freight.</p>
<p>Please try to understand, however, that not everyone has a clear understanding of how these things work. That is why I asked the question. It may sound weird to the more experienced parents that anyone would consider paying “retail” to be a problem, but some of us are still learning the ropes . . .</p>