<p>DS did very well in Orgo 1, but is having a VERY hard time in Orgo 2. He studied more than 70 hours for this last test and still did not do as well as he had hoped. Many are in the same boat. He has until tomorrow to drop with a "W" and re-take in the Spring. He is a sophomore now. Will this hurt his chances of attending med school? Should he gamble and stick it out hoping for a better outcome than expected?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>How bad is not as well as hoped? If we’re talking about a B- thats def not a drop. A C is a gray area but its better to get a C than a W. If its going to be a D or an F then a W is the better idea.</p>
<p>Also, having gone through orgo just last year I can say something about how to study for it. For orgo (or any other class) its not how long you study but how you study. And with Orgo II its def a marathon not a sprint. He should be reviewing reactions every day, maybe using flashcards. And I hope he’s actually doing problems not just reading notes and look over answers to problems. Its something you have to think through for yourself, you can’t just look at the answers and be like oh i could have figured that out or listen to your friends explain and be like yeah i get it.</p>
<p>The grade in the class depends on 3 exams ONLY. He does not know how much if any of a curve there will be until the end. He did not give me exacts on grades (it’s points), but I got the feeling we’re looking at a “D” with no curve after two exams.</p>
<p>He’s on a full academic scholarship and we are all freaking out just a little. There is also a chance of taking the gamble and sticking it out, then having the outcome affect his scholarship and still hurt his chances of med school.</p>
<p>DH and I are advising dropping, but we also are not in a position to know how this will affect his goals for the long run. I suggested he contact his advisor on Monday and meet with the prof.</p>
<p>I have found lots of wisdom here, so I appreciate the input.</p>
<p>Did the professor tell the class what the class average and the standard deviation are?</p>
<p>Regarding “the grade in the class depends on 3 exams ONLY.” I believe the grading for most premed classes at most schools is structured in this way. But the final exam may be weighted more. For example, the weights of the first midterm, the second midterm and the final are 30%, 30%, and 40% respectively, or even 25% 25% and 50% respectively. If it is the latter case, there is a better chance to improve the grade if he could pull it off at the end.</p>
<p>I think what ChemFreak posted is pretty much to the point.</p>
<p>The difficulty of a premed class sometimes not only depends on the school, but also depends on the professor. For an extremely difficult professor, students may joke that the point of going to the lecture is to find out what will NOT be in the test: Whatever the professor has covered well will not be in the test 
But every student faces the same difficulty, except for some students who have actually taken (or studied) the same course before, (Yes, there are indeed some students who have studied even orgo in high school, if they live close to a college.)</p>
<p>Somewhat tangent to the question here: DS said he did poorly on the biological section on his MCAT, right after his test. The section score ends up being a 14. Go figure!</p>
<p>Yes, my orgo grade was also based on 3 exams. Does he have any idea what the mean in the class is or on the exams? There’s a pretty good chance if he’s at or above the mean he’s looking at a B-/B. If he doesn’t know what the mean is he should straight up ask his prof where he is in the class (avg, needs improvement to hit the mean, above avg). If his prof won’t give him a straight answer its time to start talking to his friends or upperclassmen who’ve had the same prof.</p>
<p>For what its worth, at my school the cut off for an A was a 52 for two exams. That means for two of the exams we could have missed almost half the points and still gotten an A. If your sons prof is not giving out letter grades, then he may actually be in really good shape and not even know it. It all matters on how he compares to the rest of the class.</p>
<p>Okay, that is helpful, thanks. What I do know is each test has a possible 150 points. I do know that on at least one of the tests he scored about half of this. He has checked with his friends and one very bright student scored in the 20’s out of 150. A few scored in the 70’s. He will need to meet with the prof Monday. He has emailed, but I think a face to face in order. I think you could have a very good point ChemFreak. I think it’s very important to know where he stands compared to the class.</p>
<p>Opinions on dropping Orgo 2 with a “W” hurting med school chances please : -)</p>
<p>More or less – A>B>C<–>W>D>F</p>
<p>Ws aren’t good in prereqs but they hurt less than a C in most cases (as long as they don’t become a habit) as they won’t factor into the GPA (OTOH, anyone looking at a W is going to assume it was a C- or worse when they evaluate the transcript).</p>
<p>Realize, too, that he has to take the course some time. Other profs may (not) be easier. 3 exams being the total for the grade (or in excess of 80-90%) is quite common in college classes. This isn’t high school anymore, Toto. Welcome your son to college. It’s not easy and it’s not supposed to be. Frankly, I think most of us give out far too many As & Bs as it is in our classes.</p>
<p>No one can tell you what one W in Organic II will mean. We know nothing of his GPA, what he is likely to score on the MCAT. We don’t know from this thread if he is at a large state U or a small LAC, if he “knows” the prof and if the prof “knows” him. We don’t know what kind of placement his college or U has in professional schools such as med school, vet school, dental school. We don’t know if there is a premed committee to screen and support the most successful students, or if students are on their own. </p>
<p>And it is unclear if he even knows if he is sitting near the top or the bottom of the class. 70 out of 150 sounds horrible, but may not be in Organic II. He needs to meet with the prof and go from there.</p>
<p>Depends and its hard to say since he’s a sophomore. His GPA still isn’t set and he has no MCAT score. I think the general consensus is don’t withdraw unless you absolutely have to. Some people have good reasons for have a W on their transcript (death in the family, severe injury, ect… comes to mind). Sad to say your son does not really have a good excuse. When he applies he will have to write down why he has a W, and when he interviews there’s a very good chance they will ask. Saying I was scared to get a bad grade isn’t going to cut it. They will interpret this as you couldn’t do the work, and if you can’t handle the work in orgo how will you handle med school work?</p>
<p>Orgo is of course known to the toughest weed out class for premeds so a B- or above is actually ok, where an B+/A-/A might be expected in all other courses. A C is a little iffy but won’t kill his chances. D, F, and W (for no good reason) is pretty bad. It will hurt his chances a lot. The saying here is that a C won’t kill you, but I haven’t even heard anyone ask about a D or a F (or W for that matter), and I haunt these forums and SDN.</p>
<p>And to be more specific, if he’s done A-/A in his other classes he might have a really good chance at top tier medschools and a W will kill those chances (unless its for the reasons stated above). If he has a subpar GPA already then its a little better and his state school might take him depending how competitive it is.</p>
<p>Also, this is harsh but your son has no good reason to drop orgo. If he does D or F in the class then its cause he didn’t study right, didn’t study enough, crammed the material etc… Retaking won’t help that. If he pulls a C then he can retake if he really thinks he can get an A, if not just be happy with the C and work on other parts of the application.</p>
<p>Harsh, but understandable. The input is appreciated greatly.</p>