DS, 21, just can't seem to pull it together.

Parents Forum
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<p>With the info given , I think it’s a safe bet that student is more than struggling with a class or two. With 2 years under his belt, he has finished 36 credits. He has not completed the prereqs for his intended major and we know there’s another F grade at this point in time. Very few of us could foot the bill for 7.5-8 years of undergrad, which is the current trajectory. So set goals and have him drop out if he doesn’t meet them?</p>

<p>YES! Because if that happens now, there’ some college money left if he ever gets his act together and wants to go back. </p>

<p>YES! Because now the remaining college money could pay for a certificate program at a cc that might enable him to get a job where he can support himself.</p>

<p>YES! Because now OP could subsidize another living situation for him while he worked if that was plan B</p>

<p>Doing nothing is making a decision. Doing nothing means choosing to use up the resource of college money, which is not limitless, and quite possibly having nothing to show for it when that resource is gone. Make a plan A and a plan B and then stick to them or before long circumstances will take control. </p>

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<p>I firmly believe that at least half of my students are believers in magical thinking.
“I’m going to turn it around this semester”
“I’m going to get to class on time”
“I’m going to do my homework early”
“I’m going to see the professor to ask for help if I need it”
“I’m going to study a lot more”</p>

<p>Then poof, next semester comes around and it’s the same thing day to day.<br>
“I’ll just play Minecraft for a few minutes with my HS buddies”
“The new season of Walking Dead is starting, after that I’ll…”
“This work is really hard, I’m sure it won’t be on the exam”
“This work is really boring, how dare they give me such boring work”</p>

<p>and so on. Magical thinking will not help. A plan and sticking to it will help.</p>

<p>Think of it as a diet. You can complain about being overweight all you want, but you need to change NOW TODAY. Not tomorrow. Not next week. Not after the next vacation (I actually tried that, and ended up having to lose 20 more pounds than expected, not very smart).</p>

<p>My son has a 504 plan and he meets with a learning consultant at school. She helps him learn to use his agenda, how to list homework (list “none” if there is no homework for a subject, never leave an academic out on any day). and so on. </p>

<p>Many colleges offer time management courses, possibly through the tutoring center.</p>

<p>Find out how much time he spends each week outside of classes on his schoolwork. Is it 15 hours per week outside of class for 15 hours of time in class? If so, that is probably too low. If he is having trouble, he needs to think about spending 30 hours per week outside of class.</p>

<p>What I tell students is: if you don’t want to spend another 42 hours in class plus 84+ hours outside of class plus the money for the class next semester, put the time in NOW.</p>

<p>You set up tutoring appointments like they were classes. M, T, W, Th, F. 15 hours of classes, 6 hours of tutoring. At least. And expect to spend another 24 hours on your own. Do you need 15 hours of tutoring per week? Then arrange it.</p>

<p>What does he want to do? How long will it take him to figure out what he wants to do? Is he willing to work for a year in a “beneath him” job and think more about what he would want to do in college?</p>

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<p>I could cry you a river about struggling college kids that won’t accept help (tutoring, EF coaching, official accommodations). That “magical thinking” list is sadly common. OP - Be open to college alternative suggestions from your son. Courses typically get harder for upperclassman, so he’ll really have a tough time if he had not licked the EF/organization challenges. </p>

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<p>Every college we have dealt with allows reduced course load as an accommodation. Financial aid does not change. If you do not get financial aid, then once the student is 23 he can get it based on his own income.</p>

<p>This may not be relevant to the original poster, but just wanted to put it in.</p>

<p>I actually think that volunteering or interning (which are at least free) can help a lot in getting a job, often more than college, and certainly more that college with low grades. Is that a possibility if he leaves school?</p>

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<p>“I don’t want to make threats that we won’t carry through.”</p>

<p>Of course you shouldn’t; but who decides whether you carry through?</p>

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<p>This is pounding a square peg into a round hole. Consider what others have said here regarding other pathways. The CC route can do wonders and offer a lot of very cool hands-on programs. I know of one EMT with similar situation who’s worked his way into being a flight EMT. He’s well paid, well respected, and loves the job but if you stuck him in a classroom he’d fail and be completely miserable.</p>

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<p>I spoke with him for awhile yesterday. He said he was more mad at himself for failing his first Acct 202 test and not doing will in the other class. He was going to two study groups with tutors yesterday. I thought his, “you don’t have to be angry with me because I’m more angry with myself” was just a manipulative comment. I told him that is all well and good, but he went to a friend’s lakehouse the weekend before his test (which was on a Thursday), so to me actions speak louder than words. He said he thought he had done much better on this test and was shocked…another manipulative comment in my opinion.</p>

<p>I told him that if that is truly the case then he has a big issue that we need to address. I also was a business major and knew what it took to get grades. I talked about not enjoying your major, that it could be that. Also, talked about if he couldn’t do academics, then we would have to address that, too. He was going to have to pull his head out of the sand, and quit thinking he could wing it.</p>

<p>He kept saying that he could pull it together. I just told him that in a month, we will look at his grades and see what’s up…last day for withdrawal of a class is in a month. Also, we would look at everything again at the end of the semester. </p>

<p>@rhandco, he is the master in “magical thinking”. I really think he believes he can always turn it around.</p>

<p>I was going to drive to his school this weekend, but he was busy with those tutor classed and said he wasn’t busy next weekend, so I will try to drive up then. Ask him about how much time he spends studying. We’ve went the coaching route when he was in high school, and it didn’t work. Doesn’t mean it might not work now. It might be worthwhile to call and see if they have such a thing at his University…they are big on having tutors available for free! on any subjects. I could throttle him for not taking advantage.</p>

<p>@ Hanna…I don’t want to make threats “out of frustration or anger”, because when I settle down and think things through more thoroughly, I won’t carry them out. So when one does make a true threat, it’s not taken seriously.</p>

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<p>What does he like to do outside the classroom? I think you’re looking at the situation from the wrong end-- his continuing failures, rather than starting from the position of “This is what he’s good at and what he loves to do”.</p>

<p>Getting tutored in accounting when you hate accounting, can’t pay attention during class because the subject doesn’t interest you, won’t do the homework because it’s so dull seems to me like a continuous cycle of denial and magical thinking.</p>

<p>Break the cycle. The world won’t come to an end if he doesn’t major in business (and it looks like that’s a bridge too far at this point, no?) Figure out the one or two things in life he loves and that will get him out of bed in the morning-- and point him there.</p>

<p>Neighbor of mine who had a kid like yours- kid is now a successful pastry chef. It took a lot of tuition money at a four year college (and a boat load of W’s, incompletes, F’s, plus a “gap year” between sophomore and junior year at the suggestion of the college) for them all to realize that they were throwing good money after bad.</p>

<p>I don’t think you need to micromanage his schedule. I can virtually predict what his daily schedule looks like without knowing your son. If he thinks 20 minutes of studying in the afternoon and then a three hour studying marathon at night (interrupted by his friends, downloading a fun video, stopping in at a party, getting a snack) is going to get him to pass his courses, he’s just wrong. And frankly, there’s nothing wrong with that. College will still be there when he’s ready to tackle it. But you’ve posted nothing that suggests that this “experiment” is really working for him on an academic or intellectual level.</p>

<p>Has he read a single book since he started college that has changed him in any way? Has he attended a lecture, a seminar, a performance, a symposium that has really gotten him to think about the world in a different way? Been inspired by anything at all?</p>

<p>No? Well there’s your answer. He’s plugging away, not enjoying it, probably not engaged or learning anything. AND not doing well enough to transition into the business program which is his stated plan. </p>

<p>So figure out another plan.</p>

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<p>Thanks Blossom…that is what I was trying to tell him…but I definitely want him to be a major contributor to that plan. I will talk to him about these things…what does he love to do, etc? I know he loves sports. The career counselor had told him exercise physiology, but there is so many science classes and he hated his science classes in H.S. I mentioned Sports Management, etc…but it was like talking to deaf ears. I think we need to start coming back to that…ie what is he good at, what interests him, etc. He can read that sports page and knows statistics, players, etc. </p>

<p>I totally understand about hating your major and that’s what I told him. I hated being a business major, and basically got all C’s in my classes. That is why I told him “I KNOW” what it takes to get a B or an F in those classes…and he’s not doing it. So…you CAN do it, maybe not well, but it CAN be done (passing with C’s). Why did I do that? Well, I had 4 choices from my parents and that was the one I thought was the easiest. However, in the end it served me well. Although no accounting genius, I was a hungry, hard worker and after snagging that first job…my grades weren’t important anymore, just my experience and worth to the company. But I want more for him. Jane Pauley said there is a different between proficiency and passion at a job…I’m proficient. I want my kids to have both, as we all do. I just have to try to get that thru his skull! </p>

<p>Thanks for your post, it was helpful and supportive as many have been! </p>

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<p>For most kids, the work pattern will continue and as others have said, magical thinking and good intentions will not lead to the desired result. However, some kids really do wake up and turn it around. Hopefully, your son is one of them. </p>

<p>Agree with Blossom that liking your major can be important. But, again, depends on the kid. Not everyone finds a passion in their work - the world would not really run very well if nobody wanted to do accounting which seems to be one of those fields that does not inspire much passion. But having a good stable career that allows one to have a comfortable life and pursue unpaid passions can also be good motivation. </p>

<p>Hope to hear a good update soon.</p>

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<p>I know a lot of passionate accountants. And better yet- I know a ton of accountants in their 20’s who are thrilled to be earning a living (and working very, very hard) at something they enjoy so much.</p>

<p>No, not everyone loves their work or even likes their college major. But take a kid who seems uninspired or unengaged in his course work, who is also not doing well academically and doesn’t want to go the tutoring route… and rather than make the kid find a “good stable career” at something he doesn’t like- do you want that for your own kids???</p>

<p>There are accountants who work for the SEC building prosecutions against people who are trading stocks on insider information. There are accountants working for interpol tracking stolen artwork. There are accountants working for the FBI developing ways to curtail money laundering by drug cartels who are selling heroin to teenagers. There are accountants working for venture capital firms identifying promising cancer treatments and figuring out how much investment would be required to commercialize those drugs.</p>

<p>The one thing all these accounting careers have in common- they require actually loving accounting. These are fascinating careers for accountants but these are not “phone it in” kinds of jobs.</p>

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<p>Not what I was saying. Just that some kids have different motivations. It is not clear whether this kid is unhappy with accounting, just doesn’t like academics, or just doesn’t have his act together in general. I know kids that were very passionate about their interests or their path, but still failed either because they were not as interested in what they had to do to reach their goal or just plain didn’t like the academics required in college. Do you not know any hard working accountants that are satisfied with their work and their jobs, but don’t actually love it? I do. </p>

<p>I want my kids to choose something they are interested in and good at, but I also believe that striving to find a “passion” can be an exercise in futility, especially at age 20. I really like my work most days, but there are elements of it that are incredibly boring and other elements that stretch my brain and make me very happy. Same is true of many folks I know. My kids have all been free to pick their majors (and one of them has changed majors a few times and is not done yet). </p>

<p>Certainly, if the OP’s kid is unhappy with accounting or business and likes something else better, he should switch majors. But not clear to me that the problem is the major. </p>

<p>I didn’t mean to diss accountants. Just haven’t heard too many of my kid’s friends express passion for accounting in the same way some do for law, science, medicine, theater, education or communications. Nor do I hear my accounting friends express passion for their careers in the way some others do (and plenty of lawyers and even doctors that started out passionate about medicine or law do not want their kids to take that path). It seems many kids (at least the ones I know) pick business or accounting or supply chain management, because these seem like an interesting way to make money, but not because they love the subject. . </p>

<p>This may be a case of semantics. To me, there is a difference between liking your work while finding it interesting and rewarding, and having it be a passion. There is also a big difference between not having a passion (or a love) for your work and phoning it in. It also can be that the practice of accounting is likely more interesting and rewarding than the courses required to get there (based on the difficultly many kids have with accounting courses). </p>

<p>In the case of the OP’s son, he (with his parents) have to figure out whether it is the major, the school (is it just too difficult a program) or his work habits that are the problem (or all of the above). I don’t think the OP has been pushing her son to be an accountant. </p>

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<p>Blossom’s posts are wise. There are “strength-based” approaches to your son’s situation and challenges. But they won’t become clear overnight and there will be wrong turns and right turns. </p>

<p>I also agree that you may be trying to fit the proverbial square peg into a round hole and everyone is unhappy as a result.</p>

<p>The real problem in solving this may be in your relationship: is he really manipulative as you say or are you having trouble trusting? It is not for us to say. How would he react if you presented an option of leaving school in a positive light, as a potential for relief and new directions, and meant it?</p>