I could use some advice about my DS who is a college sophomore in engineering at a top public university. Freshman year, he started out with so-so grades his first quarter. We figured it was an adjustment period, so we gave him some advice (meet with professors/TAs if classes are tough, talk to an advisor, etc) and left it at that. Above all, we told him to drop a class if he was overwhelmed or felt like he was doing poorly.
Well, second quarter he got sick twice and fell behind, so he dropped one class. We figured with the lighter schedule, he would do okay. Instead, he ended with worse grades, including one D. Next quarter, he had a serious accident, so he withdrew and we brought him home. During this time, he healed, worked and took a summer class to get back into the swing of things (he got an A-). He was dealing with some emotional baggage from high school, so he saw a therapist all through spring and summer as well. He was also drinking heavily his first year, but I’m confident that the drinking is not an issue right now. He was eager to get back to school in the fall and assured us that he was in a good place emotionally (which he told us weighed so heavily on him freshman year that he couldn’t focus).
We were able to send him back part-time (3 classes) so he could re-adjust after his accident. When we would ask about his classes, he would be very vague about his calculus class, other than to say it was really hard. He came home yesterday after finals. He says he did well in his humanities class and he thinks he did fine in his science lab class. But he has no idea how he did in math. He finally told us he bombed the first test this quarter and said the final was really hard. He doesn’t think he failed, but he has no idea what his final grade will be. I’m guessing it’s highly likely he got a D. Optimistically speaking, he can re-take the classes in which he has a D and replace the grades.
He’s a smart kid, but never had to work too hard to do well at a competitive high school. And we never pressured him when it came to academics. My husband and I think he’s not putting in the effort to do better. We can’t make him study more, get help, etc. - it really needs to come from him. We want to understand what’s going on in his head. He is our oldest so it’s hard for us to tell if we’re over-reacting or if we should back off and hope the situation improves. He’s in a tough major and he knows it’s only going to get harder.
It sounds like your son has been going through a lot of “stuff” right now - transitions, health & wellness issues, life decisions… I don’t really have any advice, but I have a few thoughts… does your son really like the university he is attending? Is the school the right fit for him, his personality, his learning style? Does your son really want to be an engineer? (This is something my son is contemplating right now).
@FlippersMom Thank you for your comment. He loves his university. He’s been pretty independent so we thought he would do fine at big public U. Maybe not. I don’t know anymore. He has always been a tinkerer from a young age and has said he wants to be an engineer for years. He continues to say that - I don’t know if he’s being unrealistic…
It sounds like he should keep seeing a therapist to help him figure out what he wants to do. Has he been on any medication? That might help. Our D, the one kid in our family who I thought was emotionally stable, turned out to have anxiety and meds plus counseling have helped her tremendously.
You’re certainly not alone - it seems as if a lot of kids are struggling these days. You already know this, but keep telling yourself that life is not a race. If it takes your son a few years to gain his footing, that’s OK! My husband dropped out as a college senior (!), lived on two different communes for six years, and eventually went back to school to become an engineer (we met in grad school). He just didn’t know what he wanted to do with his life for awhile! He turned out pretty well.
Similar here, with D2 needing time in therapy and on meds, in order to regain some balance and perspective. She had a psychiatrist at home who prescribed (and worked with her through the adjustment to meds,) then later picked up a counselor at school. (She did not take a break from college, but could come home for doc visits. She and the doc could email.)
I advocate trying to ensure you have the right therapist. Just having a shingle isn’t what makes one more effectve than another. It helped tremendusly for D1 to switch to this psychiatrist, at home, (in later hs) who specializes in this age group, works almost exclusively with college kids. D2 is graduated now, but still checks in with this doc. Best wishes.
@MaineLonghorn We are a super, no-drama family, but this kid keeps us all on our toes! He’s never exhibited signs of depression so we haven’t looked into meds. I periodically ask him how he is feeling and he says he is much better than last year. We are fine financially, so we are totally okay with him taking more than four years to finish college at his pace. He is fearful that we will ask him to leave his university, but we don’t know if he’s doing enough to stay there. Ugh. I didn’t take college seriously until junior year (and went on to grad school at an Ivy), so I have sympathy for DS, but H is not happy.
Engineering is a very challenging major. Many courses that are likely much harder than any HS courses, and with very unforgiving subject matter. It doesn’t get talked about much out here, but I bet almost as many students wash out of engineering due to the difficulty as do out of pre med.
I’m an engineer that took a circuitous route to my degree. I graduated high school with honors and took a challenging load my senior year of high school all while not knowing where I’d sleep that night. My dad had moved out of state at the end of my junior year of high school and I insisted on staying behind and finishing. I ended up crashing on about 12 different couches throughout the yesr, relying on friends and coworkers and eventually a reluctant aunt for housing.
I was freaking burned out, moved to where my dad lived and took a gap year. When I started at the local state university, I did fine until I hit Calculus 3. I took 2 tries on that one, but had no issue eventually with Calc 4, linear algebra or diff eq. I was also working full time since my parents wouldn’t or couldn’t pay.
After a year of college, my full time job offered me a transfer to sunny Southern California and I took the offer. I didn’t stay long- they closed that branch office within a year and I was moved back here. I happily worked for them for a few years, and positioned myself as a bright and successful purchasing agent.
I was 24 before I went back to college and picked up my engineering classes. The local state university was still there. I was much more mature and ready to take advantage of all that the university had to offer. I got straight As. I took on leadership roles and was chosen to go to national conferences for my part in the engineering societies. I easily landed an internship that I worked for the next two years until graduation. I graduated 3 years after restarting. I stepped right into grad school then a career a year later.
So I didn’t get my degree or my PE until I was older. I’m still happily employed as an engineer, making 6 figures a year. It took me longer than some other folks that I went to high school with to get my undergrad degree but when I was ready- well, I was ready. I just needed to mature and settle in and figure out for myself if I wanted to be an engineer. The classes are tough. You can’t halfway do them - if you do, you’re going to earn that D or F.
It’s great that you’ve given your son space to work things through slowly. Take the long view. It’s wonderful that you can give him more than 4 years. Maybe toy with the idea of taking a gap year (if the university allows him to hold his place.)
Washout rate from engineering is high overall (something like 40% in just the first year), but is much lower at more selective schools.
South Dakota School of Mines and Technology is not very selective and grants about 75% of bachelor’s degrees in engineering (the rest are in sciences and other technical majors). Its frosh retention rate is 78%, and its 4/5/6-year graduation rates are 15/38/47%.
At the other end of the selectivity scale, Caltech’s frosh retention rate is 98%, and its 4/5/6-year graduation rates are 81/89/94%. However, it grants only about 37% of bachelor’s degrees in engineering (almost all of the rest in sciences). But the Caltech core curriculum is famously intense.
Some universities which require a competitive secondary admission process to declare an engineering major may have higher washout rates because of this (e.g. student earns 3.0 GPA, but cannot declare the major because it requires a 3.2 or 3.4 or whatever).
Engineering at top public schools is filled with students who had straight A’s in high school. The course averages for his courses are probably in the B to C range . There are likely plenty of students who end up with Ds. As someone who took 2 years of calculus in university, “the exam is hard” was a given. It sounds like he is not trying to get into grad school. So, I wouldn’t be too worried about a D in calculus. He’ll still graduate and get a job.
If he wants to continue, I’d be supportive. Don’t expect grades like high school. He didn’t finish his freshman year, so I wouldn’t even count him as a sophomore yet. He’s still figuring things out.
@ucbalumnus Extra cost of college is not a concern. Right now I want him to worry more about what will be best for him in the long-term health and education-wise.
He seems to give me different answers every time I talk to him, but I just got some more information. He says he put lots of effort into his math class. He was able to do the homework and practice sheets fine, but was stymied on the tests. He thought we would be disappointed if he dropped the class, so he tried to power through it with unrealistic optimism unfortunately. He says he still wants to stick with engineering, but can’t give me any answers on how to improve his situation.
i think @MaineLonghorn and @lookingforward are on the right track. Just now for the first time he sounded so lost. He says at school he was generally happy throughout the day, but he had no interest in brushing, showering, eating. He wasn’t leaving his dorm room much or making new friends (though he has a core group of very good friends). He says he’s only had alcohol once every few weeks and isn’t self-medicating. He also said he now thinks all the therapy sessions he did this summer were useless.
I think we definitely need to get him in to see a psychiatrist. He is having surgery next week, so there will be no time to get him in during the break. He thinks he did well in his other two classes. Would it be wise to send him back for another part-time quarter where he re-takes his calc 3 class (assuming he got a D or F) if we can set him up with outside tutoring, and find a psychiatrist at school? If the material is still fresh in his mind and he can replace the grade with a better one, his GPA wont be a disaster. He hates the thought of being home, and I worry that his friends who live at home will not help his situation.
His lack of interest in daily activities is concerning. There’s no way he can see a professional before he goes back to school? I would hate for him to be set up for failure if he’s not up to attending school.
@MaineLonghorn He desperately wants to go back to school. He sees the bad grade as a blip - I’m more concerned about it than he is. He is having surgery next week. He will have a 2 week recovery during which he won’t really be able to leave the house. I don’t know how I would find a psychiatrist to see him in the next few days. Maybe I could try to schedule something right before he leaves for school. Do you think he need to be seen more than once before he leaves?
I wonder about how much the accident is affecting him. One of mine had a bad accident and has a bit of PTSD from it. And the reaction was delayed. It would seem, if the surgery is related, that the ordeal is continuing as well, as it did for my kid. It can be hard to go through something like that and then return to normalcy, feigning normalcy that is while alongside others who have not gone through it. Almost similar to coming home after war, to a lesser degree of course.
Okay, thanks MaineLonghorn. I will try to find someone ASAP.
His accident resulted in a brain injury. His “emotional” issues started in high school with a tough breakup. He acted out after that by self-medicating about one year before his accident. But you are right compmom that his injury could be exacerbating his past problems. He’s been looking forward to the surgery because it will resolve some long-standing problems interfering with his sleep. I wish we had seen a psychiatrist over the summer when he had all the time in the world. He felt like the therapy was really helping because he could talk about all his past hurt and learned some tools to deal with his emotions, and I didn’t think he needed a psychiatrist at the time.
I’d be really hesitant to send him back after the holidays. Is there somewhere close to home that could work as a feeder program into an engineering program? Even if money isn’t an issue, it doesn’t make sense to pay for the same classes multiple times. He had a trial. This fall. It didn’t work. Now it’s time to try something else. Especially if he’s having surgery and he will be recovering. I’d bring him home this spring. Try to get him into a couple classes at a CC and get a part time job and work on his mental and physical health.
And just to be clear, I would fine with watchful waiting with all C’s or above. So maybe that calc grade will come in ok. But D’s in Calc in an engineering program just will not cut it without stepping back. Maybe he’d do better in those classes in a smaller school with better prof access. I did 2 BS degrees in highly rated big 10 tech school. Those introductory calc classes were big weeder classes and you had to be really on the ball and self motivated to stick with them.
Brain injuries can take a really long time to fully recover from as well. He may just need to slow down life for a bit.
