^ Manhattan’s another good suggestion. Also Clarkson.
Any preference for region? Urban? Rural?
BTW, if you study engineering at UMSL, you’ll actually be taking classes at WashU using WashU resources with WashU faculty.
They only have a few engineering majors, though.
If he didn’t like all the non-engineering stuff in high school, why would you think he’d like them in college?
My daughter looked at one because of sports recruiting and immediately ruled it out. The physics and math departments at the ‘3’ school were way too small, and the number of students who had completed the 3+2 was something like 7. Total, not per year. I think the numbers from big schools are also small. The idea is good, but the execution is difficult.
A friend’s son had a similar gpa (I think his was 3.1 after junior year, the gpa he used to apply to colleges) with a very high ACT. He was accepted at many engineering programs, although I know at least one wanted to see his fall senior year grades (and he was accepted) and the flagship admitted him to A&S but not engineering directly. He was admitted to several engineering/STEM universities and is going to a SUNY.
S has a friend with Ivy-like stats who planned engineering but ended up at a not very selective LAC (he got a major scholarship there), planning a 3-2. Instead of the 3-2, he wound up staying at the LAC for 4, as a physics major (and with a lot of AP credits was able to do advanced work), then went to a prestigious U where he is finishing two masters in two different types of engineering simultaneously.
There’s more than one path.
Yep. Grads of schools who are 3-2 partners with WashU get a tuition discount/scholarship (amount dependent on GPA) if they get an engineering master’s from there.
Again, where is he in-state for? There are probably cheaper paths.
In terms of a stand-alone option that might fit his needs, look into Clarkson, which offers breadth and depth in engineering and accessible admissions. RIT might also be within range.
I can’t believe all of you guys have taken the time to think about my question and provide so many amazing answers! Because of his hi test scores and low grades his school has just written him off as lazy and I feel like I’m doing all of this on my own. It’s so overwhelming! you are all rockstars in my book.
If anyone thinks of further options in smaller type engineering programs that might accept him let me know!!
In many places, the usual path of going to a college that is more selective than what one can get into as a frosh is to start at a community college, do well there, and transfer to the target college as a junior based on one’s college records, leaving a worse high school record behind. A community college may be a less expensive way to get the lower level course work done than a private LAC (particularly the less selective ones that tend to have worse financial aid).
However, there are may also be less selective state universities in your state that offer engineering majors and will admit a student with a 3.1 HS GPA. Of course, engineering majors are rigorous majors, so the completion rate for engineering majors at less selective colleges tends to be low, because many students who are given a chance to study engineering majors struggle and change major after realizing that it is no cakewalk.
State of residency? Cost constraints?
We live in NC. Cost is important but not a major concern. He’d rather be somewhere north where he can ski and I wouldn’t mind him spending sometime in another part of the country than just the south east.
There is a 3/2 with Bowdoin/Dartmouth.
We actually spent 15 minutes with the Dartmouth head of the 3/2 Engineering program 3 years ago (we were wandering the halls on a Saturday morning). He was a VERY nice guy, but mentioned that the reality in the program was that LAC’s sell it a lot more than it gets used. He didn’t flat out say it, but he seemed to indicate a preference for schools with Engineering. Swarthmore is an LAC with Engineering I didn’t see mentioned above.
An option that wasn’t available when we were looking at schools but now is…Haverford has a 4/1 masters at Penn. Physics undergrad from Haverford, and a Masters from Penn in 1 year. That’s (IMO) a lot more valuable than the dual degree 3/2 or 2/1/1/1 programs.
None of NCSU, NC A&T, UNC-C is suitable for him (admission wise, cost, etc.)?
There is very little love for 3/2 programs on the engineering forums. Students don’t want to leave their 3 institution just when they’re getting to be the big dogs. Transitioning into a major engineering program midstream is a major culture shock. The pace and rigor are generally far higher, no matter where they’ve come from. The students they’ll be studying have long gotten over that. Admission is once again competitive, so, usually with just a GPA hurdle, but still there’s some risk of not being admitted. Lastly, financial aid is typically recalculated. In general, I, and most who post on the engineering forum, feel that if a student is certain they want to be an engineer, they should start in an engineering program from the get go.
As for the LACs with engineering, they are the worst of both worlds. ABET curricula are so rigid that there isn’t room to add in more classes than the liberal arts already required by ABET. Students often can’t take advantage of things like study abroad because they put them behind schedule in their engineering courses. Lastly, the engineering support is weak. I’ve been to the main three, Bucknell, Lafayette and Union. Their facilities pale in comparison to a well developed engineering program. My son’s school for instance had more than 80 labs in the college of engineering alone. The have 5 wind tunnels just in the ME fluids lab. They have multiple CNC machines, a stainless steel 3D printer, a vibrations lab, the list goes on and on. Once you start visiting full fledged engineering programs, you will see, clearly, who has the toys and how important they are.
All ABET programs require about 25% of the curriculum to be history, arts and social sciences.
Lastly, most engineering recruiting, even at the big name schools is very regional. Nearly 70% of the UIUC grads practice in IL or a touching state.
Good luck. It’s a fun time!
ABET does not specify the amount of general education course work for an accredited program. Some have general education as low as 12.5% (e.g. Brown).
LACs do offer smaller intro science and math classes required by engineers.
But yes, typically, the engineering part of the 3-2 would be a big step up in pace and rigor (not always, and it depends on the LAC you came from), but also, you don’t have the luxury of spreading your engineering classes out.
They aren’t near any skiing areas, but I would strongly suggest UCincy with their co-op program. Other OH schools specialize in various engineering fields as well.
ABET does not specify any classes per se. They do say this about GE:
“a general education component that complements the technical content of the curriculum and is consistent with the program and institution objectives.”
In practice this averages out to about 20% (I typo’d the 25) give or take at most schools. The point is, don’t assume a liberal arts school will offer more arts, history and social sciences than any other “regular” school. The Cal Poly ME curriculum requires more A, H and SS than Lafayette’s ME curriculum.
There are classic engineering programs that do offer small class sizes. They are just the exception, not the rule. Cal Poly, WPI, RPI and Case are all reasonable examples.
I am not a fan of 3-2 because so many students get sidetracked. You pay for an extra year of undergrad which could have been used in a 5 year BSE/MSE program (which has an immediate 15-30K/yr return).
Georgia Tech has a dual degree program (3-2) with several schools, many that are also in Atlanta
http://admission.gatech.edu/transfer/dual-degree
While Emory is very selective, Oglethorpe University is much less so.
http://oglethorpe.edu/majors/engineering/
I’m not a big fan of dual degree programs, but having both schools in the same city would be a huge plus.
The GT web site indicates that transfer to GT as the “2” school in a 3+2 plan requires:
- Overall GPA of 3.0, or 3.3 for high demand majors.
- Math/science GPA of 3.0, or 3.3 for high demand majors.
- 3.0 GPA in each course sequence (English, math, science).
Other “2” schools in 3+2 plans may have similar admission requirements, or competitive admission. It is likely that some failures to complete 3+2 programs are due to not being admitted to the “2” schools, and some others may be due to not being able to afford the “2” school or the extra year.
In this particular case, my concern with a 3+2 would be if the schools that would accept him for the “3” will give him a strong enough background for the engineering school and hard core classes he’d be transferring to.
He would also need to understand that blowing off non-engineering classes and grades will likely results in a GPA that doesn’t get him into the engineering portion of the 3+2. And that means that from first semester freshman year on he has to concentrate on ALL his classes, and immediately break his habits from HS.
Look at a school Old Dominion University. Has a decent engineering school that he could probably get into and good placement in mid-Atlantic region.
Recall the OP wrote: “My son has off the chart test scores but has spent all of his time in the schools engineering lab and let his other classes fall by the wayside” Somehow I think one of the most rigorous schools in the country, the one where students wear t-shirts saying “Swat – where the fun goes to die” isn’t going to be a great fit.