Dual Degree Dilemma at Top Scientific Universities/Conservatories of Music

<p>Me: Caucasian, Polish-American
Male
Small Town in Southern New Jersey
Senior as of Fall 2014
Hoping to pursue a dual degree in Biology ( molecular, immunology, areas of the like) and Music
Considering applying to: Johns Hopkins University&Peabody Conservatory, Oberlin College and Conservatory, Rochester University and Eastman Conservator, Carnegie Mellon University and Conservatory(?), Gettysburg University and Conservatory(?),</p>

<p>Classes:
4.089 GPA weighted (Unweighted around 3.8 or 3.9 - not 100% sure!)
5th out of almost 200 students
AP Chemistry (Junior)
AP English Language and Composition (Junior)
AP English Literature and Composition (Senior)
AP Biology (Senior)
AP French (Senior)
AP Music Theory(??) (Senior)
Rest all honors courses</p>

<p>Extracurriculars:
3 Years marching band
4 years of concert band
3 years of jazz band
3 years of concert choir
3 years of select choral ensemble
2 years of cross country (2 varsity)
2 years of winter&spring track (Varsity)
3 years of student council
2 years astronomy club
2 years musical
4 years French club
2 years Youth Orchestra</p>

<p>Awards/Honors:
President of my school's chapter of the National Honor Society
President of French club (2 years)
French Honors Society
Math Honors Society
Many marching band awards
2013 All-South Jersey Symphonic Band
2013 All-South Jersey Orchestra
2013 All-South Jersey Choir
2014 All-South Jersey Wind Ensemble
2014 All-South Jersey Orchestra (Principal Bassoonist)
2014 All-South Jersey Chamber Ensemble-Woodwind Quintet
2014 All-South Jersey Choir
2012-13 All-State Mixed Chorus
2013-14 All-State Mixed Chorus
2015(Spring) All-Eastern Mixed Chorus (prospectively)
(Also I am assumable going to be in the South Jersey ensembles for another year if I have more successful auditions)
Delegate of New Jersey from my school for the American Legion's Jersey Boy's State</p>

<p>Standardized Test Scores:
AP Chemistry Exam: 3
AP English Lang. and Comp.: 4
SATs: My SAT scores are really not where they need to be and I'm going to take them again but I find it irrelevant, at this moment, to put my scores up because I know my scores can be raised. Right now I'm just around an average score- sub1800. Also planning on taking (???) two SAT subject tests.</p>

<p>What do you think my chances are? I've also been toying with the idea of early decision with some schools(Ideas?). Anyway, I can be extremely indecisive so deciding where I would like to go to college can be quite daunting, so if you have any suggestions of places to apply please let me know! As you can see I would like to (best case scenario) pursue a double major so having a college/university with a conservatory or conservatory-type setting is extremely important to me. These are just some places my friends and guidance counselor has come up with for me to look into along with some state schools, but I wouldn't have a problem getting accepted to them so I just asked some of the harder ones. Also I'm a triplet so cost of college is fairly important! Thank you!</p>

<p>As a rising senior, you should build your college lists off of your existing GPA and test scores, not those you hope for, since you only really have one more shot at both tests before you need to submit applications and schedule auditions (especially if you’re contemplating early decision). Have you established that dual enrollment is possible at all of these schools? Most conservatories have completely separate admissions protocols, and the BFA/BM has a grueling curriculum that allows for very little exploration of other disciplines. Mason Gross at Rutgers, for example, is a separate college from Rutgers College of Arts & Sciences. You have to apply to them separately. Look into Temple - you might have a better shot academically there than at some of the other colleges you’ve mentioned, and they have an excellent music school. Some of the conservatories base most of their decision on your audition, with little attention to your GPA and scores. Perhaps you should build a balanced list of liberal arts colleges and universities, with good science and music departments, and auditioned conservatory programs. It’s always a good idea, because the top music conservatories are some of the most selective schools in the country. You should probably include some test-optional schools, instead of gambling on the very long odds that your scores will improve to the level you’re hoping for. I hate to be redundant about this, but the simple statistics are not in favor of you breaking 2000. You might; some students do have 200+ increases, but they are rare. Here are the figures from the College Board - bear in mind that they profit from test-taking, and it’s in their interest to encourage repeated re-testing: 55% of students who re-test improve their scores; 10% remain the same; 35% decline. The median three-test increase is less than 50 points. Every student re-taking the SAT hopes to improve his or her score. Just understand that it is likelier for your score to go down than it is for it to rise by 100 points or more. If your scores soar, then you can scratch a safety and add a reach, but that reach will probably remain a reach. You are very talented and accomplished, and I admire your ambition in attempting to combine two difficult, demanding disciplines. I just hope that you find places where you will be able to do just that.</p>

<p>You should consider Cleveland Institute of Music if you have the talent. It’s colocated with Case Western Reserve University and all academics are taken at case. You can declare a second major at case, which can be a BS. You don’t have to apply to the program, it’s available to all students at CIM.</p>

<p>@guineagirl96 Thank you so much! I’l definitely look into it. My private vocal coach works at a small university near where I live and is very decorated vocally. She attended Westminster Choir College and Manhattan School of Music. She believes I would have no problem getting into high standard conservatories and schools of music. I really appreciate that as I know my schools could affect my admission rates. Thanks again!</p>

<p>@woogzmama Thank you! I really appreciate the insight. To answer your question, I do know for a fact these schools have dual degree programs which is why I listed them as considerations. Since I have pretty much ruled out ED, I do have more time (up to 3 essentially) to retake the tests. I’m very motivated to raise my scores and on my practice tests I was scoring much higher-even if the odds are against me. Although I completely agree, build up what you have, however, the possibility is still there to raise them - 55% isn’t bad. I know a 2000+ score is unlikely but I don’t necessarily need a 2000+ score knowing schools (like Hopkins) note that SATs aren’t the most important factor in their college admissions. (Still important of course!) Temple is a good school but the area is sketchy. My father’s friend’s son has recently been attacked on campus this past year. I’m also not applying to any Ivy’s where 2000 is a low score. At most of these scores 1800 is the low average as I said before. I’m very aware of the admissions process- getting accepted to both schools. I’m really not concerned with getting accepted to the conservatories. I have also looked into Curtis Institute and others like that but wanted to look into where I could get both. Thanks for the insight thought!</p>

<p>Excellent, Krzysztof! I just wanted to be sure you weren’t counting on prepping for tests while also performing, rehearsing, and polishing up your audition pieces if you are applying to conservatory programs. My older son went through the audition process for Acting programs three years ago. Most of the BFA programs would accept an 1800 if they liked an audition; many of them have very low academic thresholds. The academic colleges are a different story. I’ve found that their admissions staff are very pleasant and helpful, so you should contact them with questions about joint degrees. You are quite correct about Temple. My son went to UArts in Philly, and is thinking about transferring to Temple. He would not live in the immediate neighborhood. Philadelphia’s crime rate is similar to what New York’s was a generation ago. I think it has actually fallen, but remains high.</p>

<p>@woogzmama I agree. I mean, I’m a very realistic person when it comes to this kind of stuff, and rather pessimistic lol but I think if I can raise my scores composite by 300 points total if I really work at it my chances would raise a lot at these schools. I feel like even if I don’t, I’ll still apply if it’s a reach. I’d love to get into a dual degree program but it also really depends on money for me. As I said I have a brother and sister attending college at the same time and my family is just middle-low average class. So for instance if I were given the admissions to say Oberlin with a dual degree but not much aid and say only the Peabody Institute of Music at John’s Hopkins University with a large sum say (i wish!) little to nothing, I’d obviously choose the cheaper choice. I know, or think I know, that I want to go to grad school or medical school or get my PhD so in hindsight my undergrad degree (where it is, that is) may not be as “important” as I’m making it. Whether that be music or science. Did your son consider any of these conservatories? Do you have any first hand experience with their admissions? Just curious. </p>

<p>My son didn’t look at any of those. His SAT scores were okay (second seating was over 2000, with 780 in CR - that looks very nice to Theater departments), but his grades were abysmal and he had some disciplinary issues. He was interested in Acting, not Music.He has a lot of musician friends, though. I think Syracuse and Ithaca are both strong in both your fields, with lots of aid available. Most large universities have strong science and pre-med programs, along with lots of musical opportunities (even if cross-enrollment is impossible). Athletic powerhouses sometimes offer band scholarships, and your terrific academic resume might be very attractive to them. </p>

<p>@kryzstof‌ my brother is currently at CIM studying performance; he wished to also complete a minor in business/economics but had scheduling problems. He also applied to New England Conservatory (which also has dual degree programs with harvard and tufts I believe). Both schools cared much more about his audition than his scores; NEC even admitted him before they saw his transcript! The other schools he applied to were not conservatories, but he did get into their honors colleges I believe. His stats were very high, i dont remember exactly, but much higher than mine. He looked into the NEC/Harvard thing but decided the program wouldn’t benefit him and detract from his music studies (he wishes to become an orchestral musician).</p>

<p>@woogzmama‌ yeah those scores are very good though! For most of the schools I listed it’s about 200 above the low average. And I think for a music I’d most likely go into a bachelor of music in vocal performance which is different than acting. But thanks for the suggestions I’ll look into them! My transcript is very good and I don’t have any disciplinary issues so I think if I get my scores up and focus on that I could get into some of the reach schools I’m considering. My audition I’m not so worried about. Thank tou</p>

<p>Are you looking at Indiana? They have a fabulous music school.</p>

<p>@guineagirl96 thank you so much! I really really appreciate it! My goal overall even with a dual degree would of course the be an orchestra musician (the dream right lol) but it’s really good to know especially coming from someone who knows first hand with such prestigious programs. It’s just a tricky business of course. Real talent will prevail which I always seem to forget and my teacher seems to tell me I have it so I guess it will just take more. I did look at CIM when you mentioned it! I noticed though that the tuition was high as these schools are too but I was wondering what the financial aid situation was if you knew it. I couldn’t get a good grip on it when I was looking. Thank you again! </p>

<p>@Krzysztof‌ I believe CIM has pretty good financial aid (its a very small school, about 600 total including graduate i believe), although my brother will be graduating with no debt due to merit aid, so im not as familiar with it. My brother did get into his top choice/best school for his instrument (150 people applied for 3 spots), but would have graduated with $90k of debt. After that CIM and NEC had a bidding war and CIM won. But yes, it does cost about the same as the other schools, you’ll have to look into the financial aid at all the schools before making your decision.</p>

<p>@guineagirl96 thanks! I’ll try and look into it a bid more or talk to an admissions office or something if it comes to it. I have to ask what instrument does he play? lol yeah I know if accepted oberlin JHU and Rochester offer decent financial aid. The only conservatory-only schools I’m familiar with are Curtis and they offer a full ride essentially to all their students. Thanks though!</p>

<p>@woogzmama‌ no I haven’t actually! I will definitely look into it! Do you know what the program is like? I’m really interesting in getting a conservatory setting and type education. I just feel like is fit best in that type of environment. I’ll definitely give it a look though! Thanks!</p>

<p>Well, I know that they have trained some great musicians, from classical to R & B. I have one friend who went there, and she is very involved with the Santa Fe Opera Company (I think her husband’s a conductor), and possibly the Fort Worth Opera Company. Amazing faculty; alumni include Joshua Bell, Leonard Slatkin, Booker T. Jones (as in “Booker T. and the M.G.'s”),Chris Botti, et al.</p>

<p>@woogzmama Thanks! Sounds like it must be pretty good. I’ll look into it!</p>