Duke and Deconstructing Toxic Masculinity

Have we finally jumped the shark?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/01/us-university-offers-course-for-men-to-deconstruct-toxic-masculi/

I know an awful lot of men, both personally and in public life, who could benefit from thinking more introspectively about this topic.

@intparent Valid point but probably an issue that would be better dealt with at home. I would be a little sad if I was spending $70k a year to have my son learn self flagellation.

If it was dealt with at home, then the course wouldn’t be needed. But it is pretty obvious that it often isn’t (and sometimes fathers can be part of the problem). No one has to take the class. The problem in my mind is that the ones who need it the most are least likely to sign up. The existence of the course causes me no heartburn at all.

This isn’t an academic course, if I’m reading it right – it’s more of an extracurricular activity. I doubt that the men who need it most will sign up, but if there’s interest in self-improvement within the student body, why not?

My understanding is that this is a program put on by the Women’s Center. I couldn’t find a syllabus or agenda (I didn’t look that hard) so I can’t talk about the content. Still, I see no reason the Women’s Center can’t put on a program about their preferred version of masculinity.

Full disclosure, I am a male. Also have a male son who is a freshman this year. He’s heterosexual, self identifies as a male, and uses traditional male pronouns so he already has 3 strikes against him. We raised him to appreciate his maleness but hopefully stopped short of making him feel guilty about it. He was born that way and didn’t have any choice in the matter.

“He was born that way and didn’t have any choice in the matter.”

Thats exactly what students who are transgender or gay or intersex say too. Why should they be made to feel guilty about it? (And don’t tell me they aren’t. Just look at bullying statistics. They are the victims more-so than straight cis males… if we are talking strikes here, lets be real)

Look,this to me seems no different than the 70’s- 90’s feminist type lectures about not having to conform to the ideal feminine image, aspirations and body type… so it has swung full circle …maybe thats ok… maybe it will help men who want to shake always having to seem ultra macho…

If it doesn’t appeal to you, I’m sure you don’t have to take the seminar or course…

Lordy back in the day (1980 or so) I did one of these sorts of things at Swarthmore on sexuality. It was an evening once-a-week thing, not for credit, that I felt was quite valuable. As a suburban, somewhat sheltered (in terms of LGBT issues, in particular) girl, I learned a lot. People really go off the deep end looking for trouble on this stuff.

Can someone define toxic masculinity for me…and then how would a male know they were toxic in order to sign-up and improve themselves? We’ve jumped the shark.

Hmmm, perhaps thou doth protest too much. They will get some guys to sign up…probably not the guys they want to sign up, maybe the ones that feel guilty they were born male.

And what the heck does this mean…destablized spaces for those with privilege…

This was definitely a day of laughs in the news…all those nasty Y chromosomes in a man cave talking about how horrible they are is a hoot. Last time I knew destablize meant to make unstable…yup, yup unstable is right.

It’s a story I would have expected from The Onion not the real world. If we haven’t jumped the shark yet, it’s at least safe to say that Fonzie is getting close to the ramp.

I’ve always heard “toxic masculinity” in reference to the societal norms governing what it means to “be a man” – men don’t cry, men don’t express their feelings, caring for people is SUPER GAY, etc. Those norms hurt men and demolishing them would be a positive in my book. Doesn’t seem to be what the article is talking about though.

I have met plenty of men over the decades of my life that can cry, that can talk about how they are feeling, they can care for babies, children and seniors…I’m thinking the NORM is quite the opposite of toxic masculinity if that is the definition of toxic masculinity. I’ve known plenty of men that are all male in many senses of the word. Perhaps I’m lucky I haven’t had a bunch of violent sociopaths and mentally deranged men in my life. I doubt that violent sociopaths and mentally impaired men are running rampant on our selective college campuses. I can’t wait until some of these young women have male babies and raise them…and see them cry, and see them talk about things they are feeling and take care of their younger siblings or do something for their grandparents, work hard and play hard and defend our country… all things both men and women do every day, every month every year. I do NOT think that is what this article is talking about.

^^yes

Where’s the “Toxic Femininity” course???

“I’m thinking the NORM is quite the opposite of toxic masculinity if that is the definition of toxic masculinity.”

Right. But you can be a good, kind person and still be affected by the ideas they’re trying to fight. I’m sure there are nice young men who have to fight shame about their failure to be macho athletes or who struggle to communicate with women because their dads modeled shut-down manhood. You don’t have to be a monster to have internalized some of this poison.

“Where’s the “Toxic Femininity” course???”

Betty Friedan started working on that in the 50s.

This is not “self-flagellation” unless your son is a toxic male. I hope he’s not, but more importantly, it’s not a mandatory course, nor is it necessarily “flagellation.” People are capable of learning and growing (at least I believe so in my more charitable moments).

I know, right? When are cis-het men going to get a fair shake? smh.

A lot of women are chock-full of toxic masculinity…

Don’t hang this on the Women’s Center – they are simply assisting with the launch of this 9 week program (not a class as far as I can see.) This project was conceived by men – who identify as such, not by women. According to the Duke Chronicle it was started by a Duke senior and there are 4 men on the leadership committee which is sponsoring the program.

http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2016/09/deconstructing-masculinity-duke-mens-project-aims-to-facilitate-discussions-of-male-privilege-and-patriarchy