Duke is overrated.

College Search & Selection
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One quality I absolutely admire about the Duke student body and find it exclusive only to them is their ability to prioritize. Students study a lot but still find time to exercise at least a couple days of week. You can always find kids at the gym or participating in pick-up sports on the quad. This sort of health-consciousness was visibly absent among the Ivy League schools I visited, where most of the students I saw spent an excessive amount of time playing videogames, watching TV shows online and generally being inactive. A lot of these same kids came across as the type that would make fun of individuals who chose to party and be social on weekends for "destroying their livers and lungs". I found this hilarious because these Ivy kids don't work out at all, are completely inactive and thus face much greater health risks than a 4-year binge drinker and chain smoker.</p>

<p>Even though there exists a contingent of students at Duke that consume a large amount of alcohol weekly, these kids and the student body at Duke as a whole are MUCH, MUCH healthier than their Ivy League counterparts because of their regular exercise.

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<p>Evil Asian Dictator, your broad, sweeping claims without any hints of validity never seem to reach an end. There are many groups of different people at any school, including the ivies. There are people who stay locked into their rooms all day and not go out, like u say, but many others enjoy playing sports and going out in general. I was a varsity athlete in hs and am friends w/ bunch of others who were athletes in hs. I play bball and football almost 3-4 times a week, each time spending about 2-3 hrs. I go work out too, 3 times a week, and my bench max is over 260. From my 'sporty' lifestyle, i can attest to the fact that there are many people who work out, play sports, and other bunch of stuff. There are literally tons of intramural sport clubs at this school and many take advantage of that. Besides, many ivies don't pick candidates who are socially awkard, they seem to choose candidates w/ leadership, outgoing personality, and many of these candidates happen to be athletes in hs. Now, you are saying that Duke students are way more active and sporty and healthy compared to students from other places, let's give it a break...</p>

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<p>Hekau - I don't represent the average Duke student. However, I'm a huge fan of the Greek scene, am extremely focused on investment banking/consulting, and get good grades and have many extracurricular accomplishments. All the statements I make are from my own perspective.</p>

<p>I make comments based on my own experiences combined with factual information - ie Chicago isn't well-represented on Wall Street, Duke students are quantitatively stronger in every way, Duke is more fun than Chicago (since I've partied at Chicago and have both a male and female friend who attend it).</p>

<p>I am an ACTUAL STUDENT who has visited a TON of colleges and has many great professional experiences - I've done a lot of reading and research on comparing colleges and I think I offer a refreshing viewpoint from a college student who has really enjoyed the social aspects of college while succeeding academically and in extracurriculars.</p>

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<p>The fact that Chicago isn't well-represented on Wall Street (if this statement was, in fact, true) is a credit to the school.</p>

<p>TTP- Did Tom Wolfe interview you for his book? I think you were in it!</p>

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<p>thethoughtprocess,
I suggest you put the shovel back into the garage. The hole is plenty deep enough already.</p>

<p>As for your comments about U Chicago and Wall Street, I hope you are referring only to the traditional corporate finance/M&A side of the Street. Right? I think your claims are accurate for this business segment (which represents a smallish sliver of revenue at most I-banks). I think you neglect that there are other, very important parts of Wall Street where U Chicago grads perform very well and are represented in good numbers. But ultimately, who cares? There are plenty of strong graduates from each school, each school will have plenty of spots at the interview table, and after that it is up to the individual. </p>

<p>As for the cultures of the two colleges (Duke and U Chicago), I would agree that they are about as different as night and day and I doubt that there is much applicant overlap. They offer different things and appeal to different types of people. Most Duke folks would be miserable at U Chicago and vice versa.</p>

<p>As for the comparisons with Cornell, I am completely with you there as I think that Duke is stronger in almost every respect in the classroom (only close call would be for a student interested in engineering) and even more so out of the classroom. Duke has a social life and an athletic life that students at most other top elite colleges can't imagine. Spend time on Duke's campus and then do the same at virtually any Ivy and it's pretty clear that Duke is very different. For people like you (and me), who value the great blend of academics, social life and athletics, Duke is the superior choice.</p>

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<p>Many think that Tom Wolfe's fictional book was based on a number of colleges. </p>

<p>In fact, according to wikipedia, ""St. Ray's" fraternity in the book is allegedly loosely modeled after the Delta chapter of St. Anthony Hall—a fraternity often referred to as "St. A's"—at the University of Pennsylvania. In researching for Simmons, Wolfe attended a cocktail party hosted by the fraternity, known for its elitism and secrecy, in 2001. Even the locations of the "St. Ray's" house and the St. A's house are similar, the former located on fictional "Ladding Walk," while the latter resides on Penn's Locust Walk."</p>

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<p>I can't help but think that a high school senior or young college student who is interested in i-banking is motivated by wealth as opposed to an actual intellectual goal or interest. Why is i-banking the be-all-end-all job?</p>

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That was an extremely offensive remark. "I Am Charlotte Simmons" is loosely based on multiple college campuses including Northwestern, Penn, Stanford, etc. but it's unfairly attributed to Duke all the time, probably because Tom Wolfe's daughter is a Duke alum. As a Penn parent, I hope you realize that the social scenes at Penn and Duke are extremely similar other than the fact that the former lacks an extremely strong athletics program, so I'm suprised you would throw out such an insult.</p>

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<p>evil<em>asian</em>dictator,
We cross posted.</p>

<p>I remember reading on previous threads that MOWC was very disappointed with Penn. At one point I think her son was considering transferring. Maybe he did.</p>

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<p>"As for the comparisons with Cornell, I am completely with you there as I think that Duke is stronger in almost every respect in the classroom (only close call would be for a student interested in engineering) and even more so out of the classroom. Duke has a social life and an athletic life that students at most other top elite colleges can't imagine. Spend time on Duke's campus and then do the same at virtually any Ivy and it's pretty clear that Duke is very different. For people like you (and me), who value the great blend of academics, social life and athletics, Duke is the superior choice."</p>

<p>You keep saying how Cornell, Brown, and few others (aka Penn w/o Wharton) aren't no different from Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, and others academically while saying that Duke is superior both academically and socially...Fine, what does Duke offer that Cornell or Penn doesn't offer, in social aspects? All these schools have vibrant partying scenes and intramural sports, just like Duke. Also, last time I knew, Duke students don't participate in the varsity sports themselves, but they just watch the sports. Let's be honest here, only marketable sports program that Duke has is men's bball team. Even then, Duke's men bbal team isn't even that good and for many of the games, I would rather watch NBA games or NFL, to be honest. Only time that most folks get excited is March Madness, in which Duke isn't very strong at.
In addition, how is it that Duke is superior to cornell academically? Cornell has very broad selection of courses available and the academic courses here are as profound and deep as they can get. Lastly, if a student is truly looking for a blend of good social, academic, and athletic campus, it should be Vanderbilt, USC, UCLA, UVA not Duke. Duke, I would say, is somewhere in between.</p>

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<p>A lot of Duke students participate in varsity or club sports. It has a more athletic student body than all of the Ivies. This is basically an irrefutable fact. Also, Duke's weather is much better than Cornell's as is the campus. The students are also more intelligent at Duke(based on national merit scholars, SAT/ACT scores, etc.) and they place better in law, biz and medical schools as supposed to Cornell students. Cornell and Penn both have good social scenes but often the lack of a cohesive Greek scene/student body and bad weather act as major detriments. Duke only has two schools(Trinity and Pratt) while Penn has four schools and Cornell has like 10.</p>

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<p>1sokkermom- Your information is quite out of date. My son did not transfer and it was him- the student- who was disappointed in many aspects of freshman year at Penn. Part of that had to do with some of the IBanking-aspirant mentality we are witnessing right here on this thread.
I agree that Penn and Duke both have strong social scenes and a large Greek presence.</p>

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A lot of Duke students participate in varsity or club sports. It has a more athletic student body than all of the Ivies. This is basically an irrefutable fact. Also, Duke's weather is much better than Cornell's as is the campus. The students are also more intelligent at Duke(based on national merit scholars, SAT/ACT scores, etc.) and they place better in law, biz and medical schools as supposed to Cornell students. Cornell and Penn both have good social scenes but often the lack of a cohesive Greek scene/student body and bad weather act as major detriments. Duke only has two schools(Trinity and Pratt) while Penn has four schools and Cornell has like 10.

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<p>i find that you duke students are full of self pride and ego. Even my Yale friends and my cousin, a Yale alum, refuse to show off this much self pride and excessive arrogance associated with their school and saying "oh, yale students are more intelligent, superior, and more gifted than cornell students. Cornell or Chicago students don't place well into Ibanking. No HYS grad school for them. cornell sucks." Fine, let's leave it at that. Duke is superior academically, socially, and the student body is more intelligent. But, I would venture to guess that I will be enjoying future success not anything less than yours, considering the fact that I am a well rounded person, very sociable/athletic, have good networking skills, and have a cum gpa of 3.9.</p>

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<p>While Charlotte Simmons allegedly drew from more than one college setting, it is mainly Duke-based. The basketball/jock scene as set forth in the book is Duke and Duke alone. So is the campus.</p>

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<p>MomofwildChild - "TTP- Did Tom Wolfe interview you for his book? I think you were in it!"</p>

<p>Never read it, but I'd love to be the poster boy for Duke - 1580 SAT scoring National Merit Scholar HS football player who is a minority...who drinks alcohol frequently, is in a fraternity, writes for the school paper, active in South Asian festivals (yes, I'm bangladeshi).... Yes, I'm the stereotypical white jock!!!</p>

<p>Hawkette : "I hope you are referring only to the traditional corporate finance/M&A side of the Street."</p>

<p>I'm referring to the investment banking division at the investment bank I worked at (Bulge Bracket), though I'm sure Sales and Trading and Research are generally in line with IBD. UChicago prolly has better placement in Chicago, but NYC it doesn't have much rep as standard feeder schools (geographic issue? maybe.) </p>

<p>Pizzagirl: "Why is i-banking the be-all-end-all job?"</p>

<p>Its not, I switched to management consulting for full-time (although just as elitist/money-grubbing). The prospect of earning 6 figures out of school is nice - but you also learn a lot, get lots of experience in the finance world, and gain a huge network of people in IB. In MC I'm hoping to learn the skills needed so I can eventually become a sports/media agent or a screen writer.</p>

<p>Also, whats wrong with being motivated by money? Not everyone is rich enough to go to grad school after college. Those with student loans that need to pay probably want that 6-figure salary with good reason. </p>

<p>Patlees888</p>

<p>Do you go to Chicago? A 3.9 GPA from Chicago will get you anywhere (assuming you have matching social skills and extracurricular achievements to match your academics). But my argument that Duke is better than Chicago is based on aspects that I care about - being around strong students, social scene, lots of extracurricular opportunities, and strong representation in consulting and banking. Not everyone wants these things, but I did/do, which is why I vouch so hard for Duke.</p>

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<p>...sorry MOWC, haven't followed your posts for a while I guess.</p>

<p>In any case, both schools have great kids. Both schools are not perfect. However, there are some very smart (non-scholarship) athletes at Duke. There probably are at Penn too. :o</p>

<p>In the end, it doesn't matter. But to generalize that all Duke students are drunken I-banking wannabees is just silly. I think that there are many cross applicants between Duke and Penn. My S looked at Penn and didn't apply. He didn't like the campus. Ironically, he was being "recruited" at the time to attend Penn as an athlete. Go figure....</p>

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<p>I don't think anyone is characterizing Duke in that manner. It just appears that the leading Duke advocate on this thread seems to want to convey a bad impression. Of course, Penn has NO scholarship athletes, while Duke has many scholarship athletes who are not particularly academic. I have no problem with that, personally. Makes for good college sports.</p>

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<p>TTP, no, I go to Cornell. Just like you, I am looking into Wall and know plenty about the industry, since my big bro is working at one of the major Ibanking firms as an analyst and making some serious coins. I am also looking into law/mba possibility. But, yeah, I consider myself very well balanced person considering the fact that I excel in acdemics (3.92 gpa to be exact), play sports, have good ecs, social, extroverted, have leadership, and pretty good looking, lol. </p>

<p>But, I find it shallow that some are dragging down UChicago unfairly, w/o taking a legitimate look at it.</p>

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<p>personally, I think this thread's topic is just a representation of how 'competitive' people can get! like seriously, whether Duke is underrated or overrated...I dont give a eff. If it meets my needs: as in financially, in terms of major, college environment, social atmosphere, etc....then I'd choose it. Why do you have to be soo concerned even if Duke is overrated?
I think everyone would agree to the fact anyway that college is all you make it...going to Harvard doesn't make you look any better than say going to a lesser known college....unless u step up and show what you got!</p>

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<p>Re Post #156: The number of scholarship athletes at Duke compared to the overall campus population is very small. (I know that Penn has no scholarships for athletes, but they can still "recruit", and they do. S knew many kids from his prep school with not so good stats that still attended ivy-league schools for sports!)</p>

<p>For example, every kid that was accepted to Yale EA from his school when he graduated was an athlete! They were not the "cream of the crop" as far as academics by any stretch of the imagination.</p>

<p>My H has enjoyed watching Duke basketball for the past four years. I think the novelty for S wore off after his freshman year. ;)</p>

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At least with respect to Penn (can't speak for Cornell), this has absolutely NO bearing on the social life. Students from all four of Penn's undergrad schools are completely integrated together in terms of campus life. They take many of the same classes together (e.g., they ALL take classes in the College, many non-Wharton students take Wharton classes, etc.); they LIVE together in the same dorms, frats/sororities, off-campus housing, etc.; they eat together; they join many of the same extra-curriculars, etc. Your comment implies that there are 4 distinct groups of students kept sequestered from each other on different parts of the campus, which is simply not the case. It's more akin to students merely having different majors, not different campuses or lives.</p>