Duke is overrated.

College Search & Selection
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<p>"It just appears that the leading Duke advocate on this thread seems to want to convey a bad impression."</p>

<p>I've said that Duke is better than Chicago (providing several links to factual information), gave my firsthand account of my social experiences at Chicago with my undergrad friends, and have mentioned that I'm interested in IB/consulting and gave my perspective on that as well.</p>

<p>I'm not sure how I'm conveying a bad impression of Duke. I have shown that: I really like Duke, Duke has allowed me to get great internship/professional opportunities, and that I'm good at researching and looking at factual sources to support my claims.</p>

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<p>Can this stupid argument stop?</p>

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<p>^ By definition, stupid arguments NEVER stop. :)</p>

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<p>"I've said that Duke is better than Chicago (providing several links to factual information)" (snip)
"I'm not sure how I'm conveying a bad impression of Duke."</p>

<p>Thethoughtprocess, here's how you're conveying a bad impression of Duke.</p>

<p>Duke, Chicago, and a whole bunch of other schools are ALL fabulous places with world-class resources and outstanding students. People who are so concerned about proving that this one is "better" than the other one don't come across very well. It's like saying that the Ritz-Carlton in Tahiti is "better" than the Four Seasons in Hawaii. They're both outstanding, but they fit different people's needs differently, so why the psychological need to put the other choice down? </p>

<p>Frankly, all the top 30 or so schools (both universities and LAC's) are great choices, and it's silly, stupid, pointless and pathetic to engage in trying to parse #7 vs #8 or whatever. People who do try to parse at the level really aren't as bright as they may think they are.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Duke kids are ACTUALLY changing the world through their involvement in the financial sectors that regulate international markets

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But UChicago people were the architects of the modern, Friedmanite financial world...</p>

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<p>evil<em>asian</em>dictator: did you even get into these Ivies?</p>

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<p>Yes I did and how is that relevant to this argument anyway?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Duke kids are ACTUALLY changing the world through their involvement in the financial sectors that regulate international markets

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is too funny! I thought ibankers just try to make $$$ for themselves. But when it comes to Duke "kids" (are they really kids anymore when they are working?), it's about changing the world. LOL!</p>

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<p>Tom Wolfe is amusing.
A 70-something year old man doing a narration for a 19-year old girl.
I didn't read the whole book, but I found pieces of it to be too old-fashioned and ridiculously naive.
"OH NO!! PEOPLE ARE HAVING SEX AND THEY ARE NOT DATING!!! THIS IS A HORRIBLE COLLEGE!!!"
Finally, there were a lot of things which just didn't equal Duke.
It is a caricature, nuff said.</p>

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<p>TTP, you said it yourself. </p>

<p>Duke is better for YOU. So you can't prance around saying Duke is better period. You should be saying. "If you like popped collars, frat parties, and i banking opportunities as well as great academcis, go to Duke"</p>

<p>I say: "if you love pure intellectualism, are cool but a little off beat, and a more relaxed social scene (everyone has a different opinion of fun, TTP), go to Chicago"</p>

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<p>04-01-2007, 01:40 AM #76
evil<em>asian</em>dictator
Senior Member</p>

<p>Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Duke
Threads: 135
Posts: 1,736
"Accepted: NONE!!
Waitlisted: Penn(Wharton), Columbia, Cornell
Rejected, HYP</p>

<p>Screw the Ivy League! I'm going to Duke!!"</p>

<p>...So you did get into these Ivies? Lies are not cool. </p>

<p>The reason why this is relevant to this argument is because, if you were not accepted to Cornell and other Ivies, your criticisms "could" be out of bitterness.</p>

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<p>ClaySoul - yeah, I agree that Duke is better for certain areas. However, Duke is better in Chicago in more broad areas in my opinion, as well as really appealing to my own interests. Also, I never spoke exclusively of investment banking as the only area in which Duke beats Chicago (pre-med and law ring a bell). However, i-banking is the one area in which I have interned in and so I have a firsthand perspective of it - same with consulting (though Chicago does relatively better than it does in I-banking). </p>

<p>I also did provide some links comparing the school across certain aspects such as SAT scores, NMS, placement, post-grad scholarships, etc. which shows Duke does better in those areas (to counter the absurd idea statements of a few people who don't understand that Chicago isn't that great a school but think that because its</p>

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<p>RD, he got into Cornell/Columbia if I recall correctly (of the wait list, or whatever, he was trying to make a decision). </p>

<p>Anyways, I stand by the statement that Duke is better than Chicago for the average student personality/interestwise, whereas Chicago is better for certain types of people and for those interested in certain types of graduate school.</p>

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<p>"I also did provide some links comparing the school across certain aspects such as SAT scores, NMS"</p>

<p>Completely and utterly meaningless </p>

<p>I have yet to hear something out of you that supports Duke as better than Chicago (or anywhere else for that matter) in a broad sense for the average student. Duke would be a terrible place for me. So would U Chicago! I have a very "average" (not in a bad way) friend who went to duke but, quote, "got the hell out of there"</p>

<p>I am of the firm belief that once you reach the top 20 or so, it's all about personal fit, and you can and will have just as good of an education and post-graduate placement at any of those schools.</p>

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<p>SATs and NMS show how strong a student body Duke attracts compared to Chicago, which is totally relevant. In general, my main argument is that Duke's more law/med/biz focused atmosphere opens more doors for its students into certain fields such as banking, consulting, bio-tech research, Washington DC lobbying groups, etc. than Chicago and there are more Duke alums getting certain types of jobs than Chicago ones.</p>

<p>I would also say that Duke has more extracurricular experiences/research funding for UNDERGRADS that allows them to have better placement in law/biz/med school (though this is at least partially a function of having more pre-professional and quantitatively stronger students in the first place). </p>

<p>Controversial statements? Yes. True statements? I think so. Either way, any notion of Chicago being > than Duke in any academic way is simply untrue unless you are interested in grad schools for a few specific departments. This is in contrast to the view that Chicago is super awesome for academics and Duke is only great for sports and fun (which is what a pro-Chicago poster initially said). I don't see how a school that attracts stronger students, places them at better after graduation, and has stronger campus recruitment could be inferior in any way to school that is worse (albeit marginally) in these areas.</p>

<p>Also, there is a gap between the top of the top 20 and the bottom of the top 20...a lot of firms that recruit at the top of the top 20 don't at the bottom of top 20...I wouldn't pick Vanderbilt or Emory over most of the top 20...</p>

<p>Also, this concept of FIT is very misleading - a HS senior can't perceive "fit" that well. If I were to say Duke had an intellectual side as well as a fratty/partying side, it would still FIT an intellectual person. In Undergrad - you make about 5-10 good friends, 20-30 decent friends, and about 200 acquaintances that you are friendly with. You join 3-4 cool activities and have 2-3 cool internships, maybe a study abroad experience, and do research in 1-2 different topics and live in 3-4 different locations. You'll take about 30-35 classes total. There is ONLY so much "fit" means because a lot of different people can find their niche and fit in at certain schools. My argument - More people would fit in at Duke than Chicago - Duke offers a wider array of social experiences than Chicago. At Duke its much easier to meet people you don't know (very important!), more type-A extroverts in extracurriculars which expands your social network, and a less time-consuming academic experience which gives students time to participate in non-classroom related activities.</p>

<p>At Chicago, it seems everyone studies a lot, and than everyone who drinks goes out to the same 5-6 bars and everyone hangs out in smaller groups to pregame (even Greeks! I've been to Chicago thrice and have been out twice there). If you aren't 21, good luck! I couldn't really go anywhere except places that were over-18 (very sparse).</p>

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<p>SAT's and NMS do not in any way show the strength of a student body, you can be utterly brilliant and do just okay on your SAT's and not be an NMS. It has nothing to do with it whatsoever. Duke simply doesn't attract stronger students, people choose schools for all kinds of reasons. </p>

<p>I've recently looked at UChicago's extracurricular activities (not for this, for something else), and they have a whole lot, so I don't believe your argument there, either. </p>

<p>Fun is relative. A lot of people don't like Greek life. I don't. And I hate basketball. </p>

<p>A lot of people don't want to do law/med/biz at all. UChicago is heavily focused on academia, and Duke, apparently, on preprofessionalism. I think preprofessionalism is a travesty to education. But that's me. So again, what you should be saying is that if you are of a preprofessional mindset, go to Duke. If you are of an academic or other mindset, go to Chicago. </p>

<p>Duke is not better than Chicago, it's different.</p>

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<p>ClaySoul - you missed my point. At Duke, most people aren't Greek and a lot of people don't pay attention to basketball (though it IS fun to watch). </p>

<p>However, Greek life and basketball are two of many OPTIONS Duke students have in terms of social experiences. Duke, in general, has more varied students and more varied opportunities because it has Greek life, but also lots of political clubs, it has sports, and also lots of multicultural organizations, etc. In general, there is just more options for an undergrad who has no idea what he's interested in. Duke has people who party a lot, and people who spend time thinking a lot, and there are a lot of people who do both. Its a lot easier to meet people, become involved, and have interesting experiences because Duke has a lot of the great social aspects of fun schools and great academic aspects of intellectual schools. Chicago offers (in general) only one major aspect of college life (intellectualism) but has less options for students to experience the other. </p>

<p>Also, bashing preprofessionalism is fine - I'm not a wealthy person so getting a job and a salary is pretty important to me. Pretending job and career opportunities aren't important is pretty lame. </p>

<p>Again - in college you only become friends with like 50 people, become involved in 3-4 activities, take 35 classes, etc....students should look for the school where they can see where they fit in by experiencing a broad range of things. That is where Duke excels and Chicago, unfortunately, simply cannot compete.</p>

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<p>"At Chicago, it seems everyone studies a lot, and than everyone who drinks goes out to the same 5-6 bars and everyone hangs out in smaller groups to pregame (even Greeks! I've been to Chicago thrice and have been out twice there). "</p>

<p>So? Maybe they enjoy going out to the same 5-6 bars and hanging out in smaller groups. Not everyone has to find your style of fun appealing to them. If they're happy, what's it to you? I agree that U Chicago has a less "typical" college social life than Duke (and NU, my alma mater) - but that doesn't mean that it's "worse." It's just different and more niche in appeal.</p>

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<p>Duke is well placed in the undergraduate rankings. Duke has an outstanding undergraduate program that has truly blossomed under provost Peter Lange.
People who say that Duke is not well placed have truly not done their research and are basing their opinions of Duke on outdated perceptions of the university. As for postgraduate placement, Duke is ranked 6th for placement into the top 5 law, medical and business schools in the nation. Law school placement is particularly impressive; Duke currently has the most senior pre-law advisor in the nation who has an excellent rapport with law school admissions teams and boasts a 99% law school admissions rate. That aside, there is certainly a niche there for both intellectuals and those who are pre-professionally orientated. </p>

<p>I just did an overnight at Duke. One of the great things about Duke is that its social options are amazingly diverse. I personally believe that anyone could excel socially at Duke, from the frat types to the hippies and everyone in between. Duke isn't just conservative nor is it just liberal. It isn't just southern or northern. It certainly isn't just white or minority with a 44% minority representation. Duke's student body is a hybrid of all of these backgrounds and interests, which is something I've found particularly appealing.</p>

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<p>For the record, I'd rather go to Duke over UChicago. But both are excellent in their own special ways.</p>