<p>These days, most Duke lax recruits are from Long Island or upstate NY, with a sprinkling from New England. Not many "legacies" I don't think.</p>
<p>I'm a female student, and I feel just as safe as I did before the news. </p>
<p>The lax team had a reputation of being leering, drinking, meatheads. Everyone knew this, and everyone with common sense knew the risks of associating with these guys.</p>
<p>I'm also a lacrosse fan, played all through high school, screamed at the TV back home when Duke narrowly lost to JHU in the D1 Championship. It would hurt, but I'd rather watch game after game get forfeited as punishment for a culture of acceptance, silence, and dishonor.</p>
<p>It's impossible to ascertain the morality of each lax player that makes the team. Therefore, it's ultimately the role of the COACH to instill in these guys the reputation and tradition of their team, their sport, and their school. It's the role of the coach to, if these suggestions do not work, keep them on an even tighter leash. It's the role of the coach to, if an incident like this occurs, punish the team before it reflects on the school. Due to these failures, I believe it is the coach who deserves harsh punishment, along with the perpetrators, and those who stayed silent as their team and school's reputation became tarnished.</p>
<p>One of my professors commented on how students here really are showing no sympathy for the team. That's because 6450 out of 6500 students here do not support silence in a situation of this magnitude. All schools have skeletons in their closets - our door happened to swing wide open, and it's now our job to clean up the mess.</p>
<p>and where do you see the Athletic Director playing his role?</p>
<p>Abrams report on MSNBC is doing a LONG story on this event right now.</p>
<p>
[quote]
**do u have info that points to the ringleaders being legacies? This would qualify as newsworthy if you did. If not then this is pointless speculation and a red herring.
[/quote]
**</p>
<p>I see, don't ask if you don't already know. Gottcha.</p>
<p>Please post info about the MSNBC report.</p>
<p>Seemed at least 20 minutes long. Abrams - a Duke graduate - interviewed the prosecutor and aa local reporter who had talked to victim. Prosecutor said he believed that a rape had occurred and that he might prosecute not only the assailants but also other team members who may have been in the immediate area. He said that he believed the victim's claims that a rape had occurred based on the physical examination the hospital did and because she genuinely seemed traumatized. He said decision on how to move forward would depend on DNA results, which he will not have until next week. He was given an opening to criticize Duke and said that he had nothing critical to say; they are not impeding his investigation.</p>
<p>and so the Athletic Director can suspend play?? Cancel Games but if he doesn't then the President can??? At some schools it doesn't quite work that way.</p>
<p>I would just like to give an update from my personal experience today. I just got back from tabling for Sexual Assault Prevention Week, and as part of that I asked men passing by to sign the White Ribbon Pledge - a card that states they will never commit, condone, or remain silent about violence committed against women.</p>
<p>Two guys passed by, stopped, and - completely unsolicited by any of us - asked if they could sign. When they started speaking about how disgusted they are by some of their teammates' actions and how they wish they had known what was going on at the time so they could stop it, I realized they were Lacrosse players. They went on to say that they wished they could have said something about it right after, but they were strictly instructed not to by their lawyer because it is a criminal investigation and they could get in legal trouble. They spoke with us for a considerable amount of time about how ashamed they are to be associated with this event, how they would never dream of committing such a heinous act, how they feel for the poor woman and hope that she is okay, and how they plan on wearing their white ribbons every single day. The grief on their faces, the shame that they conveyed, and the genuine sincerity with which they expressed intense disgust with everything that happened made me feel for these boys like I had no idea I would.</p>
<p>After that conversation, I'm no longer OK with blaming the "Lacrosse team." I no longer agree that we should cancel the season, expel the team, or punish every member. I want to find out who's guilty, punish them in every imaginable way possible, and then extend my sincere condolences to anyone wrapped up in this scandal who does not deserve to be. My heart went out to those two lacrosse boys today - they were genuinely upset and trying to work with us to change this campus's attitude towards sexual assault. That deserves some respect.</p>
<p>Bandcampgirl,
Thank you for taking the time to post.
IMO if the young men whom you describe are so sincerely trying to change the campus's attitude toward sexual assault, and sincerely believe that their teammates committed a sexual assault, they'd ask their coach and the president to cancel the rest of the season. </p>
<p>The players would be too ashamed of their teammates' behavior and the administrations' handling of the situation to feel that it would be OK to represent Duke this season in the rest of games.</p>
<p>Wearing a white ribbon isn't enough.</p>
<p>I disagree with you Northstarmom. I think the people responsible should be punished, that is if the allegations are proven to be true. But cancelling a whole season based on allegations or the action of a few individuals isn't legit. If those responsible can be weeded out, I think the team deserves to do what they do best, play lacrosse, and start gaining back the respect of the community through better behavior and commitment to the University. Its not fair to condemn a whole group of people and not give them a chance.</p>
<p>Whether or not there was a rape, the members of the team have a history of brushes with the law. According to the local newspaper, about 15 members of that team had faced various charges ranging from urinating in public to underaged drinking.</p>
<p>The administration also said that team members had admitted holding a party in which underaged drinking occurred and strippers were present. Those actions certainly violate the university's guidelines, including that team members are supposed to be good representatives of the university. And such infractions are enough for an administrator with guts to cancel the season (and fire the coach who seems to have not held the line) to send a clear message about what kind of behavior is tolerable.</p>
<p>From a Duke blog.</p>
<p>"The lacrosse team represents the worst elements of this school..rich, obnoxious, northerneastern, prep-school meatheads"</p>
<p>I definitely agree with Northstarmom. You may have been touched by their gesture, but it can't compensate for the silence/cover-up and overall behavior of the lacrosse team. </p>
<p>The administration needs to be much more assertive, and it's time for them to take action other than just releasing a basic statement and cancelling two games.</p>
<p>I think some people are shocked because it happens at Duke, not some 3rd-tier party school. But then most of these athletes are no where near the caliber of regular Duke students. If not for their athletic talent, most of them would be studying in 3rd-tier schools. In fact, the average SAT for Duke basketball players was only 900s few years ago.</p>
<p>Sam Lee, their SAT scores don't have anything to do with whether they are people of good character.</p>
<p>Besides which, we aren't talking about the basketball players!</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think some people are shocked because it happens at Duke, not some 3rd-tier party school. But then most of these athletes are no where near the caliber of regular Duke students. If not for their athletic talent, most of them would be studying in 3rd-tier schools. In fact, the average SAT for Duke basketball players was only 900s few years ago.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Standards are different for non-revenue sports -- i.e. lacrosse being one of them. The cutoff SAT score for Duke lax is similar to or higher than the SAT cut off score for Ivy lax. The first question a lax coach asks a potential recruit is what his stats are -- and they are generally pretty open about what numbers a recruit needs for the coach to present a candidate to admissions. </p>
<p>The 900 number is approximately correct for basketball at Duke -- lax is 1200+.</p>
<p>(In addition, we were told by the Yale coach in a lacrosse recruiting forum that the first question the recruiting coach asks the high school coach is -- is this a good kid? Not how well can he play, but is he a good kid?) I have no comment on Pressler and his recruiting methods.</p>
<p>
[quote]
IMO if the young men whom you describe are so sincerely trying to change the campus's attitude toward sexual assault, and sincerely believe that their teammates committed a sexual assault, they'd ask their coach and the president to cancel the rest of the season. The players would be too ashamed of their teammates' behavior and the administrations' handling of the situation to feel that it would be OK to represent Duke this season in the rest of games.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You mean, something like this - which was stated just tonight in a press conference?:</p>
<p>"As we move past the period of the two forfeitures, the question
arises what to do now. This afternoon the captains of the Duke
lacrosse team notified Mr. Alleva and me that the team wished to
suspend competitive play until the DNA results come back. I met with
the captains this morning and they expressed regret for their errors
of judgment and the embarrassment they had caused themselves, their
families, the athletic department and the university."</p>
<p>
[quote]
**President Richard Brodhead decided to suspend the team from play ''until there is a clearer resolution of the legal situation involving team members,'' the university said.
[/quote]
**</p>
<p>Not quite what some were hoping for. Until DNA comes back. As long as a player is sorry and the labs cannot prove contact then all is OK in Dukedumb.</p>