<p>ldb,
rjko only knows one tune…the PA tune. He just doesn’t get the whole idea of undergraduate education. </p>
<p>As for the question at hand, I think that naysayers don’t appreciate what the Robertson is all about. It’s pretty darn special and is something that can have signatory value for years afterward, including in the positioning for a top post-graduate position as it can strongly contribute to a student’s narrative during an interview. </p>
<p>Also, as with several top scholarships at elite privates and top publics, many students who end up at places like Princeton applied for the scholarship and didn’t get it.</p>
<p>Lesdiabblesbleus, Cal’s PA is 4.7. P and Y have PAs of 4.9 and 4.8 respectively. Schools with similar PAs are equal to each other, not superior to one another…at least in the eyes of academics.</p>
<p>Alexandre, what academics think is not what determines prestige by itself. The opinions of employers, graduate school adcoms and the common people play a much larger role IMO. For undergraduate education, Princeton is far superior to Cal/Michigan and alightly superior to Dartmouth/Duke.</p>
<p>Here in the US, I have never heard of anyone disputing this firmly established pecking order.</p>
<p>No, university presidents conduct the PA rating system and they play no role in graduate school admissions. Their job is to deal with the administrative duties of the university and they are no more knowledgeable than us about the quality of schools outside their geographic region.</p>
<p>lesdiablesbleus, this is a Princeton vs Duke thread. Princeton is superior to Duke. I have no idea why Michigan (and now Dartmouth) entered the equation. But if it makes you feel any better, Princeton is superior to Michigan (and Dartmouth too).</p>
<p>By the way LDB, the PA is a mirror image of what academe thinks, hence, of what graduate school adcoms think. I don’t see how you can separate the two.</p>
<p>And Gallup measured what lay people think, and they tend to think that Princeton > Duke (and that Duke = Michigan).</p>
<p>I am not sure how we can prove what employers think since there isn’t a survey that measures employer opinion. I guess such sentiment would depend on industry.
As far as Aerospace companies like LM, NG, Boeing and NASA, Caltech, MIT, Michigan and GT are probably the most prestigious universities in the nation.
Chemical firms like Chevron, Dow, Dupont and Exxon probably think Cal, MIT, Minnesota, Stanford and Wisconsin are the most prestigious universities in the nation.
IT firms like Google, Microsoft, Cisco and Intel would probably place schools like Cal, Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, MIT, Michigan, Stanford and UIUC above most other universities.
Biotech firms would list schools such as JHU, Duke, MIT and UCSD among the best.
Consulting firms only recruit few undergrads and at very select elite schools.
Investment Banks recruit undergrads most heavily at top universities.</p>
I’m thinking about graduate departmental rankings which are basically PA’s from deans, program directors and senior faculty. The composite departmental rankings correlate very well with the (undergrad) PA’s for top schools, especially the publics.</p>
<p>It’s good to see that this argument is still alive and well. It has been a year since I posted a Duke vs Princeton thread on CC and it was nearly as heated of a debate. In my opinion, you made the right choice, but I am heavily biased. I was accepted to both Duke and Princeton, and I eventually chose Duke because of BME and NROTC, which Princeton did not offer.</p>
<p>For everyone arguing the merits of one school over another, it is ludicrous to base opinions off of a few places in one magazines rankings. In my opinion, a community college student who has drive and initiative may do better in life than any top tier student who loses the will to continue high performance. Success a function of one’s own actions, not the name of a school.</p>
<p>I chose Duke and I love it here, which may taint anything I say as far as a fair and balanced opinion. Duke is an excellent school, with excellent people, and I am sure Princeton is very similar. As far as the quality of education, I have enjoyed every class at Duke with the exception of math (at which I am supremely terrible). The only large lecture classes I have experienced were an introductory engineering course and a pre-med o-chem class, but in both I had access to professors whenever necessary and I never felt lost in the crowd unless a test average was especially harsh. Every other class has been small and taught by extremely talented professors. I even had the opportunity to work in the lab of an esteemed chemistry professor studying growth mechanisms of carbon nanotubes for a semester. If I were you, I would have made the same decision (I did), and with the Robertson scholarship the case would have been closed completely. </p>
<p>Princeton has a “wow” factor that Duke may never have. Arguing against that is futile; I felt it firsthand. My parents and even a few of my high school teachers pushed for Princeton solely because of the name. Princeton has a lower admission rate, higher endowment, etc., but arguing that these numbers makes a better school is asinine. Ever student is different. My desire to serve in the Navy and my desire for a strong athletic culture as well as academic excellence led to my decision to attend Duke, but I feel as if I would have loved Princeton as well. Duke may not have the age-old Ivy League reputation, but if you are the type of person to base your self-worth on your reputation of your school then I wholeheartedly believe that you need to listen to the 90s eloquently phrased advice and “get a life.”</p>