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Thanks that's exactly what I tried to point out that berkeley is more famouse than Duke in asia and euroupe, just couldn't find one person here as an example.
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Rubbish. Duke is well-known in Europe. If you don't believe ME, why don't you ask the other posters on the international admissions forum I frequent? You could also try reading about the new medical school Duke set up in Singapore. Of course, that might take more effort than typing ignorant comments. </p>
<p>In any case, I don't believe the OP intends to set up medical practice in Europe or Asia. </p>
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When a Duke pundit pulls up one academic ranking which shows Duke ahead in "ecology/evolution", you can bet it is because Berkeley is ranked well ahead of Duke in just about every other of the dozen plus biological science sub-discipline...
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Mmmhmm. How does Berkeley rank in oceanography? Or biological anthropology? Or botany? Or medicine, the field in which the OP is interested? BTW, thank you for the compliment, although I don't consider myself an expert. :D</p>
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The top 6,000 undergrad students at Berkeley have stronger credentials than the top 6,000 undergrads at Duke.
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Mmmhmmm. That's why Duke utterly demolishes Berkeley in awards like the Rhodes? If Berkeley is so great in science, why can it barely scrape together a few Goldwater (science/math/engineering) awards while Duke is in the top 3? Get real.</p>
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Berkeley's environment is far more cosmopolitan than Duke's
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Yep, I bet those 9% of OOSers add a lot of diversity.</p>
<p>Yes, it's true that more people have heard of Berkeley, but the difference really isn't that great (or important). My post did come out much ruder than I intended, though. As I said earlier, I really don't care. :p</p>
<p>International applicants find out about Duke on these boards and from USNWR's ranking. Outside of that narrow segment though, Duke's name pales in comparison with Berkeley's globally. Berkeley has been ranked as one of the top 5 universities in the world by leading sources in China an the UK (the Times).</p>
<p>Duke set up a new med school in Singapore? That's a good start. Berkeley's presence in Asia is far deeper and older. In Indonesia for instance so many policy makers had gone to Berkeley that they were known as the "Berkeley Mafia". Most good American universities are just realizing the growing importance of Asia and are scrambling to build bridges to the Far East, while Berkeley was a leader there for many decades.</p>
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How does Berkeley rank in oceanography? Or biological anthropology? Or botany? Or medicine, the field in which the OP is interested?
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</p>
<p>Those are sub-specialties of broader fields like biology, anthropology and geography. Berkeley is ranked higher than Duke in those fields. I don't even have to look it up. You can look up the rankings and compare, but I doubt you will report because Duke will not look good there. Every upper-tier university has some sub-specialty where they rank pretty high, and those are used in PR to compensate for the lower rankings of the broader departments in which they belong. </p>
<p>I would guess that UCSF, the medical school that has ties to UCB, is at least as good as Duke's.</p>
<p>I doubt that the Duke student body is better than Berkeley, but there is no doubt whatsoever that Cal's faculty is better in just about every discipline. I looked up the last published list for the Goldwater awards (2006 recipients) and found 3 Berkeley recipients vs 4 from Duke. MIT had 3 recipients as well, about as much as Brigham Young University. I think you'd be grasping at straws when you imply that the number of recipients corresponds to the actual standings of the schools in the field of math, sciences and engineering, unless you actually believe that the student body at Duke is superior to Cal and MIT in those fields, in which case I'll just nod politely and move on to another thread.</p>
<p>I don't think you really want to debate about the diversity aspect between Berkeley and Duke from the perspective of an Asian applicant either...</p>
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I doubt that the Duke student body is better than Berkeley, but there is no doubt whatsoever that Cal's faculty is better in just about every discipline.
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<em>shrug</em> Unlike TTP, I never claimed that Duke's student body was smarter. I've spent a fair bit of time at UNC Chapel Hill, and I'd easily agree that the top students at both schools are equivalent (the same for Berkeley). I'm quite happy with my marine biology and archaeology majors and famous advisors at Duke, and I'm sure the students at Berkeley are perfectly happy too. </p>
<p>My goal in this thread, as I have stated ad nauseum, was to play devil's advocate. If you read my posts in this thread, you'll notice that in addition to posting the benefits of the biology program at Duke, I specifically outlined the excellent resources of Berkeley's biology department. In fact, I was the ONLY poster to do so.</p>
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Rubbish. Duke is well-known in Europe. If you don't believe ME, why don't you ask the other posters on the international admissions forum I frequent? You could also try reading about the new medical school Duke set up in Singapore. Of course, that might take more effort than typing ignorant comments.</p>
<p>In any case, I don't believe the OP intends to set up medical practice in Europe or Asia.
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</p>
<p>well I used to be the "international coordinator for students" in a country in Asia about schools in america, I gave them info and stuff about schools here, I don't think they've ever heard of Duke. Berkeley on the other hand is more wellknown, everybody knows that and they asked lots of questions about it. You can reject the fact or whatever I don't care, I'm not trying to convince any dukies. Believe what u believe, doesn't matter to me.</p>
<p>ucb is more popularly known b/c it is a public school hence more graduates, duke is a private hence less graduates which means lesser known in the general population...however, if you plan on grad school...duke obviously does better
edit: when i was at the beginning of my senior year, i never even knew schools like duke,dartm., jhu, nu, or georgetown existed...omG but i actually heard of cornell O.o reason =/ part private/public hence large population of grad
edit: i am the perfect example of the general population of being ignorant...but i won;t be the person judging you for grad school admission lol =D</p>
<p>Strykur, I think one would be insane to pick Cal over Duke. Duke wins in every category when it comes to undergrad education and recruiting, reputation etc. Cal students will never understand this.</p>
<p>I went to Duke in the early 1980s and hated the large classes. In fact, I failed freshman biology for several reasons. It was not taught by just one professor, there was a new professor every few weeks, each one with different teaching styles. I am the kind of learner who needs to figure out what the professor wants and having so many different lecturers made it extremely difficult. The exams were the hardest part because each professor wrote their own questions, each with different expectations.</p>
<p>Also, the class was full of pre-meds, which I was not. It was quite cutthroat competition. But the TAs who ran the labs were excellent, if you don't mind paying all that money to be taught by graduate students.</p>
<p>O.o no offense...but i think the only people who even claim they will choose ucb over duke r the people who got rejected from duke...but admission difficulty...duke definetly beats ucb in that aspect...if you get into duke...ucb is an auto accept</p>
<p>"O.o no offense...but i think the only people who even claim they will choose ucb over duke r the people who got rejected from duke...but admission difficulty...duke definetly beats ucb in that aspect...if you get into duke...ucb is an auto accept"</p>
<p>darkhope, really ... you keep repeating certain facts that simply aren't true, and now I'm posting this just to say how erroneous they are. First, I would suggest you not "guess" as to why someone chose UCB over Duke -- you simply don't know. Second, UCB is extremely difficult to get into: take the top 6,000 students of UCB and compare them to Duke's undergrad body, and the former would be as good if not better in statistics. UCB simply lets in more students because they're CA residents, and as part of the UC system requirements, they have to give them consideration (though not admission) -- and this isn't to say that it's entirely easy for in-staters, just that UCB goes easier on some people. But OOS? Some OOS people have gotten into Harvard/other difficult schools but not Cal.</p>
<p>Further, the admissions rates for the two are very close, so there is no "auto-accept" at UCB if you got into Duke.</p>
<p>most people oos usually don;t go to ucb even if accepted, instaters get a lot of slack in the admission process, yes and ucb's top 10% probably is better than duke's top 20% but if you take the bottom 50% of both, duke will definetly outweight ucb in terms of matricul. quality. And yes i definetly agree w/ you, ucb offers better financial advantages than duke does for ca residents hence the possible decision to have ucb over duke, but i doubt anyone on this forum would have chosen duke over ucb if not for financial reasons or for ucb's impacted majors, unless it is in comparision w/ one of duke's lesser developed majors
comparing admission rates is impossible to judge the quality of applicant pool b/c a person who lives in california w/ a 3.5 ugpa will apply to ucb just b/c it requires one more extra check on the app while a person in california w/ that same 3.5 will not bother to apply to duke b/c they never heard of it or they do not want to feel out that extra app
edit: for example some schools like cornell have higher acceptance rates than ucb but you also have to agree that the higher acceptance rates is because the quality of the applicants r stronger than the quality of the applicants to ucb...
edit: another example...i hate to say this but it is the truth O.o lol...for jhu the ed applicant pool increased over 30% in one year...but that did not mean it was harder to get into jhu that same year than it was the year b4 that year, the only difference was that the overall quality of the applicant pool grew weaker which led to a lower admission rate but does not indicate that the school is harder to gain acceptance than it was b4 that 30% increase of applicants for ed
edit: comparing admission rates is just completely pointless ...it's almost the same thing as stating that stanford's med school is harder to get into than harvard's because of it's extremely low admission rate despite the lower quality of admitted students</p>
<p>wow the discussion is already so furious lol i wonder what will happen when in august us news ranking comes out, people on these forums will erupt and kill each other lol =D</p>
<p>I know that admissions rates don't reveal a whole lot, but they are helpful to a degree in comparison (getting into Duke doesn't make you a shoo-in at Cal).</p>
<p>Also, again, guessing at why certain students choose or don't choose Berkeley is futile; you simply do not know.</p>
<p>ps: Try punctuating right / avoiding netspeak. Reading your responses is like forcing my way through mud.</p>
<p>looking at past threads on cc for both ucb and duke, i think i at least have a general idea hehe...but i do not doubt your godly knowledge of ucb though i do notice that most students who even think so highly of ucb r usually californians...and i have no reason to compliment duke so all my opinons on both duke and ucb r objective; however, you as a california resident, well you know O.o...but if someone from the north would argue in favor of ucb more than duke...then i think their opionons will be more valued
-I'm sorry i write so bad but it is a forum afterall =D must netswpeak =D
edit: i'm sorry kyle...i was exagerating about the shoe in thing, of course you still have to apply to even be considered =/ arggg...sorry if i didn;'t express myself correctly...you must forgive me...=(</p>