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Hey, don't hate on Baltimore. It's better than Durham.
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<p>haha i agree, NC is just very boringgggggggggggg! not even snow to play with haha</p>
<p>the person started this thread lives in California, ask him what he chose (should have chosen by now)!</p>
<p>NC is by far the best and most beautiful state. :cool:</p>
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not even snow to play with haha
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I'll have you know that we got snow Thursday! We even made 1' tall snowmen. :D</p>
<p>i can;t wait till i go to the east coast, i am literally going to visit nc since it's right next door to md =D and see full southern life =D
edit: well virginia still separates but yea...must visit ny also =D</p>
<p>people supporting duke: stop going back to the "the thread starter was talking about biology so don't bring up any other fields" argument. you've obviously brought the argument way above just one major. both berkeley and duke have their strong fields and arguing which one is "better" won't do anything. </p>
<p>the more thethoughtprocess talks, the more i want to believe that duke is a horrible school. duke may be "better" than berkeley on paper, but who gives a *****? if i'm applying for these colleges, all that random information about rhodes scholars and whatnot is the last thing i'll be thinking about. people believe berkeley is a good school for a reason, if duke was actually THAT much better of a school than berkeley, then people would think that duke is THAT much better of a school than berkeley, its that simple</p>
<p>also, my brother got into duke and berkeley but chose to do eecs at berkeley so doesn't that just throw your whole "all people that think berkeley is better got rejected from duke" argument right out the window?</p>
<p>the only truly way you can judge which school is better is if you have gone to both and have experienced enough of each environment to make a fair judgement. and for some reason, i doubt that you've gone to both these schools</p>
<p>^^^ So if, for instance, you haven't personally attended Princeton or Slippery Rock State U, you won't have any way of judging which is better? What a shame. Because it means that the only time we'll know if we went to a good school or not is when it's too late :( </p>
<p>TTP, thanks for your contributions to this thread. I appreciated the actual posting of relevant evidence in the face of so many people claiming "X IS BETTER PEOPLE! MY CAPS LOCK KEY MAKES IT OFFICIAL" ...although I admit I also liked the one person saying "Don't use the word 'whatever' in a serious conversation like this!" :)</p>
<p>alright konflict, i'll go to Duke and Berkeley for a couple of semesters and i'll let you know which one I like better in a few years...</p>
<p>Random information like Rhodes scholars? Some other random information I've mentioned includes National Merit Scholar, med/law/business school placement, SAT scores, undergrad scholarships, corporate recruitment surveys, etc. etc. etc. </p>
<p>If you think that is all "random information" what are you even doing at a website about colleges? konflict, I'll put you in the category of people who have nothing to add to this discussion...</p>
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All these Berkeley alums are coming out in full force because they still like to prentend Berkeley is where the best students go for undergrad...unfortunately, Berkeley is not the great undergrad it used to be. Duke is completely superior.
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<p>Duke only grades better in the USNWR than Berkeley because this ranking dilutes pure academic criteria in favor of things like size of endowment, % of alumni who financially support the school. Back in the 1980s Berkeley UNDERGRAD was in the top 5 because those peripheral criteria were not included, only academic factors contributed to the rankings.</p>
<p>For those of you saying that the Duke student body is smarter, I would counter that my DORMITORY at Berkeley had more Nobel Prize winners than all of Duke university. No, Berkeley grads aren't just fixated on Nobels, some of my contemporaries from my dorm are now CEOs (like at GOOGLE), cabinet ministers, world leaders in their fields. </p>
<p>As far as the % of med school admits, it is lower at Berkeley because Berkeley is not entirely made up of upper-middle to upper class students who came from professional backgrounds, the constituency of most good private schools. If one of your parents or a close relative is a doctor or lawyer, you will be better groomed to become one and understand what it takes to position yourself as a candidate for grad school. You will be much more likely to land great internships through connections and will focus on extra-curriculars. A lot of students at Berkeley are either sons of immigrants or lower-middle class families who put all their eggs in the GPA basket only to find out the hard way that their profile wasn't well rounded enough for grad schools. That is the difference, and I've seen it in action through many cases of people I knew at Berkeley. My roommate graduated with a 3.9+ GPA but only got in into Michigan Med because all he did in school was study and work out. He tought he would get into Harvard or UCSF (though he was very satisfied with Michigan.)</p>
<p>Sam Lee: no, second-tier private schools like Brown are by no means superior to Berkeley. In fact I wouldn't even consider them equal.</p>
<p>Back to the OP: class size at Berkeley and Duke are probably pretty similar. You should look up the info at the Duke Common Data Set, I would bet it isn't much different than at Berkeley.</p>
<p>I think you should base part of your decision of the schools' environments. Duke is a bit more of an isolated campus vs more urban, North carolina vs Northern CA, etc</p>
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A lot of students at Berkeley are either sons of immigrants or lower-middle class families who put all their eggs in the GPA basket only to find out the hard way that their profile wasn't well rounded enough for grad schools.
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<p>CalX,
Well, maybe if they got appropriate coaching/advising, they would be smart about the process at the beginning and wouldn't need to "find out the hard way" at the end? </p>
<p>By the way, I didn't mention anything about Brown. All I said was <em>undergrad</em> program is much more than awards won by senior faculty and I illustrated that in two areas. You must be confusing me with someone else.</p>
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For those of you saying that the Duke student body is smarter, I would counter that my DORMITORY at Berkeley had more Nobel Prize winners than all of Duke university.
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<p>Why do people keep mixing undergrads with grads, and in this case, profs?</p>
<p>^^^ Not to mention, why do people keep saying such stupid things?</p>
<p>Or, if there really are a number of Nobel Prize winners among the student population of that dorm, then I'll stand corrected. But not until after I see their names. Is there a special dorm at Berkeley for Nobel Laureates? Wow.</p>
<p>alright I just visited Duke AND Berkeley today. It doesn't take that long to fly from the East coast to the West coast thru wikimapia :D</p>
<p>Duke looks like a country place with lots of trees and forests and gardens, and parkings. Berkeley is crowded, more like a city and building looks more modern. Especially you can see the Memorial Stadium from the top. So pick ur choice, what do u like? Want a snap shot of each school? :D</p>
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Why do people keep mixing undergrads with grads, and in this case, profs?
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<p>You need to pull your head out of your ass and realize Berkeley's most prestigious professors also teach undergrad.</p>
<p>Sam Lee, the distinction between grad and undergrad is not at all as clear cut as you want to make it look. It's the same faculty, one that is far superior to that of any private school that falls outside of the top 5, like Duke or Northwestern. We've also debunked the myth of class size, which isn't much bigger at Berkeley. </p>
<p>The quality of the Berkeley undergraduate experience is vastly underrated on this board.</p>
<p>chaoses: the Berkeley campus really has the best of both worlds, it is in an urban environment (right across from the most beautiful big city in the US), but it is also a green haven with plenty of trees (most are green year round) and a stream, on the foot of green hills and a wide network of state and county parks. You can drive 5 minutes from campus and find yourself in the middle of the countryside. In this sense, Berkeley really is a unique place.</p>
<p>id say deffinatley duke, but since ur insate berkely is a lot cheaper</p>
<p>Oh, I forgot to mention, I attended both Duke and Berkeley in previous lives. Is that helpful? </p>
<p>However, due to traumatizing past-life regression therapy, I've blocked out all of my college experiences. </p>
<p>Oh sorry. As you were ;)</p>
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id say deffinatley duke, but since ur insate berkely is a lot cheaper
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Berkeley is not necessarily cheaper than Duke (or Stanford or most of the Ivies). As I stated before, Duke was cheaper for me than UNC Chapel Hill in-state. Other factors are probably more important than cost, at least until the OP can compare costs.</p>
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the distinction between grad and undergrad is not at all as clear cut as you want to make it look. It's the same faculty, one that is far superior to that of any private school that falls outside of the top 5, like Duke or Northwestern
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<p>CalX,
Funny you had to mention my school. I didn't go to Cal or Duke and I believe I've been giving an unbiased view, something you failed to do on this thread. PhDs and undergrads are <em>very</em> different in terms of what they get out of their profs. The former work closely with their profs (thesis advisors) for 3-4 years whereas typical undergrads probably take no more than 2 classes from any given prof. Just in case you'd use the excuse of "undergrad research", I'd point out most ugs at Berkeley don't do any of that and the level is nowhere near PhD research. I'd bet most Berkeley undergrads care little about the research that had given their profs the fame and awards they received. Nobody is saying Berkeley's ug is bad or not top-20; it's people like you who try to use "grad=undergrad" and elevate it's undergrads to the worlds of Harvard and Stanford that cause the most stir when bunch of stats pertaining to undergrads suggest otherwise.</p>
<p>There is no "bunch of stats" here, just the USNWR ranking that separates Berkeley from the very top by including items like % of contributing alums, endowment size and graduation rates. </p>
<p>You are also wrong in separating the quality of the faculty from the quality of the curriculum, when the two are very tightly linked. You're wrong as well to assume that Berkeley students don't care about the "fame and awards" or quality of their faculty.</p>
<p>bunch of stats=graduation rate, students retention rate, prelaw admit rates, premed admit rates, wsj placement rankings, fraction of undergrads receiving prestigious undergrad fellowship like Rhodes, Marshall, Fulbright...</p>
<p>I didn't say they don't care about the fame and awards; why would I say that when bunch of you seem to repeatedly cite that as the primary reason for its "undergrad" superiority. I said most of them didn't know much about "the research" that led to the awards, unlike the PhDs. </p>
<p>I didn't say one is necessarily superior; I am just giving a more balanced view. One has more reputation in the world, better grad programs, and faculty with more fame and the most prestigious awards. Another has better stats pertaining to undergrads likely as a result of more focus and resources devoted to them by the administration.</p>