Can someone help me weigh out my options here? I don’t want to ask which is the better school because that question can’t really be answered. But what do you think the strengths and weaknesses of each school are. Oh, and I aspire to go to med school. Thanks!
Don’t know if duke is any good at medical things but emory has one of the best med programs in the country.
@FutureSurgeon97 : I will just speak on Duke vs. Emory since I don’t know about UVa. Duke is of course really good at medical things (at the grad level, better than Emory of course). Other than being pre-med, what do you plan to d?. Do you have a major/academic path in mind other than “take pre-med pre-reqs and get A’s”? Do you have AP credits that can gain you access to better than normal courses? What do you think you would want to take your freshman year. Without this, I cannot answer your question full, but I can begin. Conventional wisdom says Duke simply because it is more prestigious, but honestly that doesn’t really help for med. school admissions once you are already in the “selective school” range. Only HYPS may help. All that matters is the quality of instruction your receive (I think Emory has a lot going on here and often STEM courses are smaller than most comparable sized universities), academic environment (maybe similar at all 3, except Emory has no D-3, so may be more “academically” oriented student body, but at the same time there is a very strong Greek presence as there is at the other two). It just depends. I know that Emory is probably better than Duke when it comes to the chemistry courses taken by pre-meds. However, biology, I don’t really know. I once looked at science course content via just stealing stuff off of course hero and I find that Duke has as much hit or miss as Emory. I imagine that the introductory sequence matters a lot and there seems to be much similarity in terms of content (makes sense, many elite schools align their biology courses at the intro. level after the MCAT), but Duke at the time I checked did all multiple choice examinations (not the easy kind) for bio 101 (I think that is what it is called after they renovated its curriculum) whereas most instructors at Emory do both. In addition, many more instructors at Emory do case studies and stuff, so that’s cool if you like to see more applications in and out of the classroom. I think the 2nd semesters could be a little different in that Emory’s focuses on prokaryotic genetics (hence microbiology) a bit more than normal along with some non-Mendelian genetics concepts (like linkage, interference, gene interaction, epistasis, that stuff…stuff that should be in the new AP I think, but wasn’t really in the old one).
Physics and math are much better/superior (more rigorous) at Duke (more stratification, a larger UG emphasis, seemingly more resources), but you may only need intro. experience for those or nothing if you have AP calc. credit, though Emory has a life sciences calc. series, which when taught by the correct person can be more interesting without being overly hard (now only the 2nd half is offered and I suppose this would be similar to Duke’s intro. biostatistics course. You prep for it with AP or math 111 credit. It is required by the bio dept). They both have stats. depts but Duke’s has been around for much longer and is thus way ahead. Emory is just getting its QSS major/program off the ground (I’ve heard some good things about higher level courses and I head that the service course QTM 100 is mediocre like most service courses at medium/large institutions). This is what I will tell you for now (as this covers many of the pre-med pre-reqs/recommended courses). Until I know your interests, it isn’t worth telling much more.
@bernie12
I’m interested in a couple of things set forth in your answer:
- Is there a calculus sequence geared toward biology majors? If so, what are the courses in that sequence?
- It's my understanding that it's difficult to place into the Bio 141/142 introductory sequence that's needed for medical school/biology major even with a 5 on the AP exam. Is that your understanding?
- What is the biology sequence for biology majors?
- What's so awesome about Emory's introductory chemistry classes?
Not directed at me, but I’ll answer.
- Math 115/116 is the Life Sciences sequence. I didn't take it, but I think it's much better than the regular calculus sequence, which is very hit or miss depending on the instructor... although I always recommend for students to take more than the bare minimum of math - if not minor in it.
- Do you mean place out of Bio 141? It's not difficult to place into 141... It's the first class everyone takes. Unless you mean that it fills up quickly... which isn't a big deal since anyone who checks OPUS regularly will get a spot.
- I'll let Bernie handle that... He knows it better than me. But I think it's a flexible major.
- Simply put, they do a good job separating the hard workers from the lazier (albeit sometimes smarter) folks. If you don't drill concepts and practice problems, you won't do well. I think it's curved to a B-. Is that right, Bernie? The biggest piece of advice I give everyone on this is to do most of the recommended problems. There are a lot, but they're necessary to understand the material.
Also, Emory’s OChem instructors are superb. It could be the best lineup for a course in any department on campus.
I’m not sure how Oxford does things.
Overall, I think a lot of students get very worked up and stressed about this. I think the stress results in a lot of hyperbole (especially the “OMG, I can’t get into the class I want! My next 4 years are completely screwed!!!” - and, yes, I’ve heard several people saying that to their parents on the phone). College is supposed to be fun, and you’re not going to be thrown out to the sharks!
- Yeah, they want biology majors to take 116 for which AP credit for AB/BC or math 111 is a pre-requisite. It is specifically for life sciences majors. It used to be a 2 semester sequence, but I think they are revamping it.
- You meant place out I would imagine. Yes, kind of....but not really if your a biol major. Good options for 4/5s outside of just forfeiting and retaking (a waste of time in my opinion) is to just take the lab first semester and then 142 OR Biol 240 (with BECK, do not take with anyone else because they suck. Beck's classes are good prep for scientific thinking and thus research or MCAT level thinking-this is organismal form and function). with 141-L and then 142 w/L in the spring. The latter allows you to knock out an elective while also learning biology in a more useful than normal way with a good teacher (you will be confused at first because Beck doesn't really lecture as much, and many students define teaching as lecturing. However, he promotes much more problem solving and teaches you how to analyze science in the context of data sets and figures, something not commonly taught in HS and often not even colleges where many biology courses are still overly based on regurgitation/factual recall. Getting a headstart on those skills is the best option).
- 141/142.
- The instructors(especially for ochem) and the fact that they are actually undergoing a curriculum renovation that they may pilot some elements of next year at the gen. chem level (the Big 3 teachers for gen. chem are awesome, MgGill, Mulford, and Weaver, and the content pretty standard....for now). The big difference is at the ochem level where 2 of the instructors (who happen to have a majority share of the students) are phenomenal teachers (they actually use Socratic Method and active learning techniques) that challenge students to a level not common even among elite schools. Since their exams also represent their level of teaching. If I had saved Duke's stuff, I would just have you compare it side by side so that you can see the difference, but I don't (I may subscribe to course hero and get it again). I would just say that their approach to teaching and testing is pretty traditional for ochem. I suspect Emory is trying to go toward this model for gen. chem/introductory, but with much more planning. Duke tried it a while ago (http://pubs.acs.org/cen/education/8034/8034education.html), but it did not work. Luckily Emory has a grant specifically for it: http://www.hhmi.org/programs/awards/52008096 to work something out (the new building doesn't help either). Emory could have an edge in that it has experimented before with some success. The only reason why they reversed is not because of resistance, but growing enrollment and the economic downturn (which of course zapped away the funds for the experimental approaches). Now, it appears Emory's dept will try it on a larger scale now that it has the money.
@MyOdyssey : Amazing what you can find on the internet. I didn’t even know that they had concrete plans yet: http://cen.acs.org/articles/93/i9/Revising-Chemistry-Curriculum.html . I think the changes in the introductory sequence are supposed to happen in 2016. Also, my guess as far as pre-healths go is that you take the “modern chemistry” course and then just choose whatever you want for the 2nd semester. Most pre-healths will probably choose inorganic. Likely chemistry majors would progress through all 5…I’m not sure what all of it means, but I think I have an idea.
@bernie12 and @aluminum_boat
Thanks for the detailed answers.
I should have specified that I’m interested in the answers to those questions from the Oxford College perspective:
- Is there a calculus sequence geared toward biology majors? If so, what are the courses in that sequence?
- It's my understanding that it's difficult to place into the Bio 141/142 introductory sequence that's needed for medical school/biology major even with a 5 on the AP exam. Is that your understanding?
- What is the biology sequence for biology majors?
- What's so awesome about Emory's introductory chemistry classes?
- Don't think so for Ox
- Biology 141/142, you just automatically sign up for if you are pre-med at either campus. There is nothing weird about it I think unless you have lower than normal SAT/GPA. But it looks like if you have a 4/5 AP it isn't an issue: http://oxford.emory.edu/academics/courses/choosing-the-right-courses/science-courses/ 3.141/142 (like main-the labels for Ox are the same as main for comparable courses)
- Oxford's labs are what makes it stand out. They, for both biology and chemistry are inquiry based (lectures may be as well if you take them INQ, an option not offered on main). Inquiry based means you design and execute your own project. Oxford is honestly so serious about it that students may still actually present their project via a poster session (main cannot beat that sorry). So Oxford is actually even better.