<p>Hey,
I am currently deciding between applying early to Northwestern and Duke.
I think that i will pursue a career in business.
I am curious whether Duke Econ or Northwestern Econ + Kellogg Certificate will be better for getting a job.</p>
<p>[Best</a> Economics Programs | Top Economics Schools | US News Best Graduate Schools](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-humanities-schools/economics-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-humanities-schools/economics-rankings)
Here, Northwestern’s undergrad econ program is ranked 8th, where Duke’s is ranked 19th. They’re both great programs, but when applying ED, it really depends on if you’re certain you wan’t to go that school. Northwestern is more midwestern, down to earth, with a beautiful campus on the lake. Duke is definitely more east coast. If you’re set on ranks and prestige, you can’t go wrong with Kellogg, but again, they’re both great schools.</p>
<p>Those are grad economics program rankings. They might be more pertinent if your goal was to get a PhD in Economics. Even undergrad rankings, though, wouldn’t be that indicative since the question is basically what school has more recruiting opportunities for top firms. I’m not sure what industry you are interested in, though. Consulting? Banking? Duke traditionally is a huge target school for the top firms in those industries. Northwestern still does well but doesn’t quite have the numbers that Duke has. Duke is typically only behind the top tier of Harvard, Wharton, Stanford, and Princeton for i-banking/management consulting, whereas Northwestern’s numbers put it slightly below Duke in general. I don’t think either would be noticeably better to prepare you to get in a top firm, though. If you’re smart and motivated enough to get a job from Duke, you’re smart and motivated enough to get the same job from Northwestern and vice versa by and large. The differences may simply be geographic in which office is recruiting you (Duke to New York, Boston, or DC whereas Northwestern to the Chicago office). Take a look at Duke grads that are CEOs of Fortune 500 companies - quite a lot of success.</p>
<p>Also, a certificate from Kellogg does not equal a degree from Kellogg. Certainly, the courses and topics will be relevant and helpful, but the “Kellogg prestige” is not really at play. They have a Financial Economics Certificate, whereas at Duke you can get a minor in Financial Economics if you’re not an Econ major or if you are an Econ major, you can get a concentration in Finance. I’m sure the courses are largely the same.</p>
<p>In summary, I don’t think there is a large enough difference in the prestige and job opportunities coming from either institution and thus I would choose largely based on personal preference. I live in Chicago and grew up 5 minutes from Northwestern. I personally found the quarter system unappealing as most students seem to constantly have exams and they don’t get out until mid-June so are at a handicap for internships. Perhaps some people like the shorter course duration. I worked in a Northwestern professor’s lab over one summer starting at the very beginning of May for 12 whole weeks. A Northwestern student joined my a full SIX weeks later. The high temp in Chicago tomorrow is 49. The high in Durham tomorrow is 75. This past May in Chicago had more days in the 30s than in the 60s…which made me very angry and cold. Northwestern’s campus is pretty and the lake is nice, but I personally find Duke’s sprawling campus and gardens much more attractive and well laid out. </p>
<p>Evanston is a much better city to walk around in than Durham - more stores, restaurants, etc. near campus. The bad part is that all bars in Evanston/Chicago are 21+, so the social life still is on campus a lot since only seniors (or people with fakes) can go to the bars anyways. Durham is an okay city to live in and there’s plenty within driving (not walking) distance in the shops and entertainment categories. But since the immediate surrounding bars/clubs cater to the college crowd, there is no 21 age restriction so you can hang out with everybody (technically, they just don’t give you wristbands to order alcohol). Chicago is nice to have close by to Northwestern, but based on my friends they, they rarely actually go into the city which is a 45 minute L ride (and again, bars are 21+). But I guess it’s nice to at least have the option.</p>
<p>Duke sports and athletics play a much more central part in Duke’s culture than Northwestern based on my experience. Northwestern football games are fun, but not near the same intensity of Duke basketball. If you like a solid sports culture, I think Duke has the edge.</p>
<p>Socially, both are known as places where students study hard and also know how to have a good time. I think all types of people (nerds and partiers) would be comfortable at both Northwestern and Duke.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>I think Bluedog nailed it on the money. He/She gave some great advice, and I’d follow it. I think Duke is definitely better for investment banking/consulting as we have a great alumni network. Northwestern is good too, so its up to you :)</p>
<p>Many factors come into play for landing a job with a top company. It’s very difficult to conclude whether one would give you more advantage than another, given the difference isn’t significant. Duke may have the number overall but Kellogg cert may give the ultimate edge because the program has dedicated career counselors directly from Kellogg, hence a different animal. At the end of the day, schools can only do so much and the whole package is still mostly about what you have and can bring to the table. There’s also another uncertainty - you don’t know if you will get into Kellogg cert. So there’s a risk and if you are risk averse, Duke may be the better choice. But then if you are risk averse, maybe you do not want to get into top consulting/ibanking anyway.</p>
<p>But if you do end up taking Kellogg cert, you will be pursuing possibly the most rigorous finance/managerial analytics curriculum available to undergrads in the country. The courses are Kellogg MBA-level courses (you may even see some math that’s not discussed/presented in the MBA version) and the pre-reqs are full of math (econometrics, probability, honors cal, linear algebra…). You should be comfortable with a fair amount of math if you want to take this route. From the academic standpoint, Kellogg cert is one of the most rigorous and very best out there.</p>
<p>Sam, you make great points and I believe you when you say kellog certificate is one of the best out there for finance etc. Could you speak to the MMS at duke?</p>
<p>Ah, thanks Sam Lee. I didn’t realize that students had to apply for admission to the Kellogg cert program and then they took high-level MBA type courses. Very interesting…Duke doesn’t have ANY majors/minors/certs at the undergraduate where students have to apply for admission (except for transferring from Trinity to Pratt basically, but that’s still not hard or competitive). I wonder why Northwestern doesn’t do a full fledged business undergrad degree that you apply to like Ross at Michigan (i.e. after your sophomore year) if you have to apply for admission anyways. I guess they want to give them exposure to MBA-style courses but still focus on a more broad liberal arts education at the undergrad level.</p>
<p>In any event, based on what Sam just said, it sounds like the MMS cert at Duke is *not *comparable to the Kellogg cert in the least. The MMS cert is not Fuqua-level classes. In fact, the majority of the faculty come from the Sociology department and the MMS cert is viewed as “easy” among the student body - it’s popular in lieu of business for a lot of athletes frankly. It’s not near the rigor of Duke’s economics program or the Kellogg cert it seems. It sounds like a Kellogg Cert, though, is far from a sure thing if you end up at Northwestern so you can’t assume you’ll get into the program. At Duke, there are no additional applications/hurdles to get into majors, but they don’t have anything comparable to the Kellogg cert based on what Sam just stated.</p>
<p>I still think it comes down to personal preference and there isn’t a clear better school. Perhaps geographic differences of where you want to end up could come into play, but I also know plenty of Duke grads in Chicago and Northwestern in NYC, so I don’t even think it’s too grave of a concern as they’re both nationally known.</p>
<p>So you’re saying that the MMS is a joke blow-off program for jocks? Should an econ major even bother taking it?</p>
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That’s pretty much what the administration said. But to make the students happy at the same time, a certificate/biz minor comprising just a fraction of a typical undergrad biz program just doesn’t cut it. It’d be too easy since even a full-fledged program is usually not very rigorous at the undergrad level. So it makes sense to offer courses at high level and to have the applicants take a set of pre-reqs (seven or eight depending on which certificate program one chooses). The additional hurdle is to make sure the students in the program are able to handle the courses. They are taught at a slightly faster pace than the MBA ones because certificate classes are 10 minutes shorter.</p>
<p>I know this may be a little off topic, but while we’re talking about Duke vs. Northwestern, does anyone have any tips on which would be better for pre-med?</p>
<p>^ My pre-med friends have been telling me that Duke undergraduates get a break when applying to Duke Medical School - which is a top 5 school, although I cannot verify that since I personally know nothing about medical school admissions.</p>
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<p>It’s worth taking if you find the courses interesting and helpful. I haven’t taken any, so can’t speak to them from personal experience. An econ major is already demonstrating solid analytical abilities, so obtaining a certificate that is perhaps seen as “easier” shouldn’t be a concern to potential employers or anything. It could be a GPA boost (a good thing) in a topic of keen interest (also good). Also, probably most employers don’t know the rigor of individual programs so a “Markets and Management” certificate certainly sounds helpful. But if you’re expecting the required rigorous math and problem solving skills in the MMS program that is required for economics courses at Duke, then you’ll be mistaken. But I don’t personally see that as a bad thing assuming you find the courses interesting. I minored in Psychology (which is seen as fairly easy in some corners) simply because I found cognitive psych very interesting - nothing wrong with that. My major was more “marketable” to the job industry, though. I was merely speaking to the differences in rigor vs. Duke econ or Kellogg based on what was indicated above.</p>
<p>All med schools accept more undergrads from their own institution. So, it’s not unique to Duke (which does follow this practice). Northwestern med is also top notch. I hear orgo at Northwestern is brutal though…not that it’s a piece of cake at Duke either. Prestige of a school is WAY overblown in med school admissions. People from State U get in to quality med schools all the time. Frankly, I find it almost better to go to an easy school and get a high GPA if med school is your goal (and perhaps save money with a merit scholarship). The only differences I would say are the pre-med advising available at a school like Duke (which is very strong; don’t personally know about Northwestern’s) and the availability of research at the undergrad level which makes Duke students more likely to get into top notch institutions since they’ve already done some very interesting research. The med center is adjacent to campus and a ton of undergrads do research, so that’s where I’d say Duke has an edge over other institutions. At Northwestern, the med school is downtown on a separate campus so I’d imagine conducting research there as an undergrad would be quite a bit more difficult (45 minute bus ride instead of 2 minute walk), but I don’t know the statistics.</p>