<p>For finance jobs in NYC (Goldman Sachs)</p>
<p>Both are equal–go for fit. Do you know if you have been admitted to both Duke and NU’s Kellogg Certificate program yet through a Likely Letter perhaps?</p>
<p>I’m considering all of these programs as well. UChicago’s CCIB program (and Booth School of Business Certificate) would definitely be something to look at. From my point of view, I’d choose Chicago + Booth over Northwestern + Kellogg simply because Chicago has the best economics program. Apparently, though, a high GPA is important for recruitment, so both Duke and Northwestern win in that respect (grade deflation at Chicago). Oh and btw, Duke offers a Marketing Certificate (though its not finance, it is business related) which is something to consider as well.</p>
<p>Duke offers an Economics degree with a Finance concentration which is a really powerful combination that should work wonders in the job market. Employers know that you get the analytical skills that come with studying in a top 10-15 Economics program as well as have applicable financial knowledge gained from relevant coursework.</p>
<p>Chicago’s economics program doesn’t mean zilch to WS employers. The stronger the alumni network in banking, the better the recruitment will be. Chicago only recently became more pre-professional so elite employers are more used to hiring out of Duke since the banks have assumed the students there and other schools like Dartmouth are more interested in the WS career path.</p>
<p>Hey man, you lookin at the right perspectives? That’s real good, that’s real good man. You at the right thread</p>
<p>Back to specifically Duke and Northwestern… I’m in the same boat, deciding on business, dreaming of Wall Street. I applied to both and think I am more likely to be admitted at either before Wharton (which is obvi the clear choice for Goldman Sachs recruiters). Duke of course is the Fuqua b-school. I lean toward Duke because they have study abroad at the london school of economics in correspondence with the econ/finance major. That alone is reason enough. big opps in international and nyc finance if u study there. Northwestern’s biz ed is pretty lackluster for undergrad. Plus, their sports are ten times worse than Duke (the clinching factor)</p>
<p>
Well, I’d give you the following to consider:
- You don’t necessarily need a few Nobel winners on the faculty to have a quality undergraduate economics curriculum. But if you can’t look past that, notice that the two most recent economics Nobel winners from the Chicago area actually did their Nobel winning research at Northwestern. One is still teaching at Northwestern. The other one, Roger B. Myerson “from UChicago”, actually spent 25 years at Northwestern. Few years before his Nobel prize, he switched to UChicago (pure luck for UChicago to claim that one).
- Northwestern undergrads never lost to UChicago in College Fed Challenge. But that may be more a function of having a team with not only the technical knowledge but also the ability to think on their feet and present well.
- Kellogg certificate programs are well-structured and organized. It has a very well-designed curriculum. Grads have got hired by a long list of top companies that include not only the top ibank/mgmt consulting firms but also the hot firms like Google and Facebook.
[Jobs</a> & Internships -Certificate Program for Undergraduates - Kellogg School of Management - Northwestern University](<a href=“http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/Certificate/career-development/jobs-internships.aspx]Jobs”>Certificate Program for Undergraduates | Kellogg School of Management)<br> - In contrast, CCIB is newer and pretty loosely structured. Chicago Booth is very good at placing their MBA grads to finance but it’s difficult to guage how and to what extent, if any, that trickles to CCIB.</p>
<p>mustangman,
Kellogg certificate is a rigorous program with master-level courses. MMSS is another quality programs that top firms seem to love. In fact, at Booz & Co, the three “school managers” are all MMSS alums. Northwestern is also one of the very few undergrad programs on that drop-down menu and virtually all other “schools managers” for other schools are MBA grads. <a href=“http://www.booz.com/global/home/join_us/at_your_school/northwestern_university[/url]”>http://www.booz.com/global/home/join_us/at_your_school/northwestern_university</a>
Besides its top-10 economics, NU’s industrial engineering and management sciences department is ranked in the top-5.
You may want to research more before saying what programs are “lackluster” and what not.</p>
<p>oh you posted here too OP, I guess Sam Lee covered all the bases then.
I posted my 2 cents in the Northwestern forum.</p>
<p>yeah and LACLUSTER mustangman? I think that’s a little harsh.</p>
<p>Especially considering that Kellogg is a top five business school whereas Fuqua is not, I don’t see where you are coming from.</p>
<p>And though you mentioned Duke’s economics program with a finance concentration, to my knowledge Duke has nothing even close to a formalized cerificate/curriculum in finance or managerial analytics like Kellog (for undergrads specifically.)</p>
<p>This is not to disparage Duke’s economics program but Northwestern is on par with if not slightly better than Duke in terms of pure educational/skills prospects.</p>
<p>There is no appreciable difference into the preparedness of the students of both these stellar programs. If you do well, you will be offered opportunities with top firms. Choose based on where you think you’d be happier and fit. There may be some slight geographic differences (i.e. if you want to be in Chicago, there are a lot of Northwestern alumni there, whereas Duke has a lot of alumni in NYC/DC), but top firms in NYC obviously recruit at both and there are plenty of Northwestern grads in NYC as well. I don’t think you automatically get admitted to the Kellogg Certificate program at Northwestern as a freshman, so you can’t 100% bank on that as part of the equation, but Sam Lee can correct me if I’m wrong. Sounds like a good program, though. </p>
<p>I don’t think the quality of Kellogg vs. Fuqua should factor into it at all really. You’re not in the MBA program. From a Wall Street recruitment perspective, it doesn’t have any bearing at all. Duke undergrads are heavily recruited. Good luck.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>MMSS curriculum automatically fulfills all the pre-reqs, which accounts for most of the battle. It’d be pretty much automatic for a MMSS student as long as he/she does okay in the MMSS courses. Each cert program is supposed to be capped at 50 but neither has reached full capacity. So it’s not like there are too many qualified applicants there. The pre-reqs (7 or 8 courses for a non-MMSS applicant) serve as a huge deterrent.</p>
<p>That said, MMSS is a rigorous program and there’s a senior thesis that requires significant time commitment. It’s better to pursue it when you are truly interested in it rather than thinking it’d give you an edge in getting certain job offers.</p>
<p>^bluedog I totally agree with what you said.</p>
<p>The OP did say that he was considering Northwestern’s MMSS program.
The MMSS program is basically a shoe-in for the Kellogg certificate program because it fulfills almost every single prereq’s for the program.
MMSS students have a much easier time fulfilling these prereq’s because these classes are often enmeshed in the curriculum.
So provided that the OP is in MMSS, he or she will have no problem taking Kellog certificate classes.</p>
<p>Many people responded to my post, wow. Did not mean to be so inflammatory. I seemed to think “lackluster” was, well, a lackluster word. You say Kellogg and Fuqua are top 5 business ed. that is all great, but i’m going to defend myself here. those rankings are presumably for MBA education? Kellogg doesn’t have a program for undergrad, which is why i pointed towards northwestern’s dim(mer than wharton) prospects for a raw business grad. there are the various programs, to which, yes i am an applicant. Let me explain here. I think northwestern is a great university, especially one to gain a broad education. they are committed to engaging their students in the liberal arts and thus shy away from the raw undergrad business plan (which is specifically what i prefer since biz ed is very limiting in some respects, plus who really wants to spend the best four years of their life and 50k a year to learn how to do accounting). unlike programs at virginia, texas and wharton, you get an econ degree and the huffy puffy certificates. so as @bluedog said, northwestern grads get great prospects in chicago but responding to dongmong, he wants the nyc job. duke may have an edge there. that’s not to discredit the great job opps there (charles schwab, geneva, etc). both are great, if he wants to make it to nyc, i stand by duke as a better choice.</p>
<p>I think you were kinda comparing NU, not NU + MMSS/Kellogg cert, with Duke. Or you probably just assumed MMSS or Kellogg cert adds nothing to the regular NU degree. But you probably don’t realize that Kellogg cert students have their own career advisor who works exclusively with the Kellogg cert students and leverages Kellogg’s employer partnerships. That’s where Kellogg comes into play.</p>
<p>From the educational point of view, Kellogg cert provides the depth (in finance or managerial analytics) usually not found at the undergraduate level elsewhere while at the same time, the students still get a quality liberal arts education. Recently, few of the students got 4th place against mostly graduate or MBA students at the 2011 Rotman International Trading Competition.<br>
[Northwestern</a> Seniors Win Simulated Trading Competition : Northwestern University Newscenter](<a href=“http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2011/11/kellogg-trading-competition.html]Northwestern”>Northwestern Seniors Win Simulated Trading Competition: Northwestern University News)</p>
<p>I don’t mean to butt in, but where would a University of Chicago economics degree fall into the picture? Better than both, between the two, etc.?</p>
<p>@ HYPSdreamer</p>
<p>For UChicago, I would be more likely to say different rather than better necessarily.
UChicago literally is one the top schools for economics. Academically, its arguably the most rigorous and demanding economics programs in America.</p>
<p>However, that does not mean that it necessarily will give you a better education than say Duke or Northwestern. All three schools have great economics programs, and from what I’ve heard, economics at the undergrad level is pretty much all top quality at premier institutions which all the mentioned three schools are.</p>
<p>But what do you mean by BETTER? Is it hiring prospects? Grad school acceptances? Pure academic/educational quality?</p>
<p>Well, in regards to job placement in investment banking and management consulting. For some reason, I feel as if uchicago is a bit shabby in these areas, and I’m trying to get a better picture/perspective now before I have to make a decision in April. As of now, I’m only in at Chicago, but if I get into peer schools, I really don’t want to make a decision that would hurt my career prospects.</p>
<p>Also, wouldn’t Northwestern have a slight edge over Duke just because of it’s proximity to a major city? Or does that not play a major role in the amount of research done?</p>
<p>You are right in saying that UChicago has less of a presence in ibanking and consulting in terms of new-grad hiring. Yes, UChicago has Booth, an excellent business school, however, the excellence in hiring there often does not extend to UChicago’s undergrads. This is not to say that nobody gets jobs in those fields from UChicago, but that representation is less comparatively with respect to other schools, namely Northwestern and Duke.</p>
<p>So yeah, if you were to get into Duke or Northwestern in the regular round, you may want to consider those schools over UChicago. Especially Northwestern’s MMSS program and Kellogg Certificate are great for heavy recruiting from major consulting firms like Bain & Co., securities trading firms, analyst positions, ibanking, etc.
Duke also is excellent for all of the above. Duke’s alumni network extends deep into NYC and all across the eastern seaboard. You will be heavily recruited there as well.</p>
<p>As to whether Northwestern would have an edge due to it’s location… I have to say that Duke makes up for not being next to a city with its fantastic alumni network. It’s really relative. The fact that Northwestern is close to Chicago does give it a bit of dominance in the Chicago area but Duke has deep connections in NYC and elsewhere. They are more or less on par with each other.</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>