<p>I'm trying to decide between going to Duke and Northwestern. I don't know what I'm going to study (perhaps biology at this point, but it's very subject to change), so I'd like for my college to have both breadth and depth in terms of subject matter. I guess that means I also want academic freedom. The trouble is that I feel these schools are very close academically, with Duke maybe having a slight edge. But Northwestern also has the advantage of being close to a big city, which is a pretty big appeal to me. Weather is not a problem for me, and their athletic programs aren't going to be a large factor. Most of the extracurriculars I'm interested in are going to be available at both schools (IM sports, and while theater/music might be better at Northwestern, I'm probably not good enough to fully take advantage of their programs). I guess it comes down to academics, social life, quality of the student body, and as painful as it is for me to admit, name recognition. I'm going to visit both this month to help me decide, but I would appreciate any input you all might have.</p>
<p>If you really actually care about name recognition, Duke wins hands down. I don't think that's a good reason to choose a school though, so...</p>
<p>It's honestly not a big reason, but I (and a lot of other people) would be lying if I said it didn't subconsciously affect the decision at least a little bit.</p>
<p>These schools are on par academically. (Duke has greater name recognition because of athletics; not because of superior academics.)</p>
<p>In terms of student body character: Northwestern's more bohemian; Duke's more preppy.</p>
<p>In my opinion, Northwestern's location best Duke's.</p>
<p>I had these choices and I think the two are very similar in many ways. The location of NW is much better if that is important to you, but I have never had a bad professor in 2 years at Duke and the academic program is excellent. If academics is your main priority I would probably choose Duke. Social life here leaves something to be desired in my opinion but others may like it (mostly Greek-centered social atmosphere). I'm not sure that NW would be any different in that regard. Good luck with your decision.</p>
<p>I think it's a little ridiculous to say that Duke is a better school than NU in terms of academics. If your decision hinges on big name recognition, athletics and a mild climate, I would go for Duke. If you would prefer to be near a big city and have access to an amazing theater program, go with NU. To be honest though, among people in the know, Duke's name recognition is not that much greater than NU's, although it is true that your average Joe would be more likely to know about Duke.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Duke's name recognition is not that much greater than NU's, although it is true that your average Joe would be more likely to know about Duke.
[/quote]
Even we uneducated Southerners have heard of Northwestern. :p</p>
<p>You might want to consider the differences between the quarter system (NU) and the semester system (Duke).</p>
<p>well i've grown up in north carolina most of my life and last summer i took a college course at northwestern so i think i have a pretty good idea of what both schools are like.
northwestern's location is leaps and bounds and light years better than duke's. if you've never visited NC you cannot know how truly ghetto durham can be. i mean, it has its nice points, if only a few, plus its fairly close to other parts of the triangle like raleigh and chapel hill. if you would like to be able to find excitement without driving however, northwestern is the much better option with evanston and the el to take you to chicago.
academics wise, its obvious taht there's not much lacking at either so i can't see that being much of a determining factor, especially since you're not sure of your major.
perhaps i'm biased, but ACC sports is about as good as it gets (alright, so football isn't that great), so duke wins in that regard but i wouldn't think that would be much of a determining factor.
i can't say for absolute sure, but northwestern's student body seems to me more.. extroverted? than duke's. i've heard neither has the greatest social reputation, and both are pretty heavy in frats and sororities.</p>
<p>in short, i could have just said that i would probably decide by the location since that's where the 2 schools differ a lot. that wasn't as helpful as i had hoped..</p>
<p>Northwestern is more liberal while Duke is more conservative, yes?</p>
<p>Also, I'm briefly considering Tufts too. At first, I didn't think it was on the same level academically, but the more I read about it, the more it seems like it's not far behind. The location is a big draw too. What do you guys think?</p>
<p>I'd agree that Tufts is -- at the very least -- not far behind Duke, and certainly on the same level, if not higher than NU. For what it's worth, I got into all three schools, and picked Tufts. Any questions, PM me. You're right about Tufts' location being a big draw: just outside a major city... definitely closer to Boston (5 min by car, 10 by subway) than Evanston is to Chicago. Plus I think Chicago<Boston. The sciences at Tufts are also very good and you might be interseted in knowing that money for undergraduate research is very high at Tufts -- particualrly in the sciences. I have many bio, chem and physics major friends who have been published in national journals/reviews! You can only imagine how med schools and PhD programs will be fighting over them!</p>
<p>FWIW, as a high school senior I was deciding between Duke and Georgetown and Tufts... I picked Gtown, was very unhappy, and reapplied to Duke and Tufts as a transfer. I got into both again and decided that Duke would be too much like Gtown (very Abercrombie, jock-like) and am now at Tufts. I'm delighted. PM me if you any Q's as well. I am an IR major, but I am pre-med.</p>
<p>At this point, I'm really leaning towards Northwestern. Duke seems too remote, conservative, and preppy to me. Plus, I don't like how the campus is so large and spread out to the point where freshmen live apart from everywhere else and you have to take a bus to places. I really liked Tufts when I visited, and while I have yet to visit NU, I get the feeling that it will have an atmosphere closer to Tufts than to Duke. So right now, I would say my first choice is NU, and I'm even leaning to picking Tufts over Duke.</p>
<p>lolabelle,</p>
<p>
[quote]
certainly on the same level, if not higher than NU
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would have let it slide if you didn't put "if not higher than NU" (as you repeatedly did in various threads). But I guess you feel you have to do more than that to sway peple because most usually regard NU higher. </p>
<p>I am sorry, various rankings have put NU higher. NU has better numbers in the following (just as examples):</p>
<p>overall college (#14 vs #27)
medicine (#21 vs #47)
sciences (every dept including bio)
engineering (all departments)
social sciences like econ, psychology, sociology (there's really no IR ranking; but NU's IR isn't even a full-blown major anyway)
humanities like history and english
peer assessment (academic reputation)
25-75% SAT range; NU's was just slightly higher, according to US News 2007 edition. Last year data for NU isn't even available but already you've been using Tufts "admitted" (not enrolled) stats to claim Tufts' "academics" (not just SAT) is "negligibly" better than schools like Cornell/Northwestern/JHU.
wsj feeder school ranking (despite the fact Tufts is geographically closer to most of top grad schools in the survey)</p>
<h1>grads studying at Harvard/Yale law schools</h1>
<p>recruiting from elite IB/consulting firms
....etc. </p>
<p>NU also has renowned theater, communications, journalism, music, and business/law (grad) programs. These are programs that Tufts probably don't have so it's not a fair comparison but they contribute to NU's overall name recognition.</p>
<p>I don't want to overemphasize these rankings as they aren't perfect. But to me, they have more beef than your seemingly very biased claims. Again, as I said earlier, I'd have been perfectly okay if you just say it's on par with NU. I think much of Tufts' strength strength may not be accruately or fairly reflected by published rankings. But you made it sound like Tufts is not just on par but actually slightly better academically and that just crossed the line to me.</p>
<p>Sam, </p>
<p>I've already posted this in response to similar posts as the one above that you have written. This information is from the Princeton Review, info for the admitted classes of 2010 (some info for Tufts was available only for enrolled class of 2010, but we can assume that the admitted stats are at least as high as the enrolled stats):</p>
<p>TUFTS
Freshmen Academic Profile
Average SAT: 1405 (enrolled, presumably admitted is slightly higher)
SAT - Verbal Range (25-75%): 670-740 (admitted)
SAT - Math Range (25-75%): 670-740 (admitted)
TPR Projected Range SAT Writing: 690-750 (admitted)
Average Verbal SAT: 715 (enrolled, presumably admitted is slightly higher)
Average Math SAT: 718 (enrolled, presumably admitted is slightly higher)
ACT Composite Range (25-75%): 29-32 (admitted)
Average ACT: 31 (enrolled, presumably admitted is slightly higher)
Students in top 10% of HS class: 83% (admitted)
Students in top 50% of HS class: 99% (admitted)
Total applicants who are accepted: 27% (exactly 26.6%)</p>
<p>NU
Freshmen Academic Profile
Average SAT: 1401 (admitted)
SAT - Verbal Range (25-75%): 650-740 (admitted)
SAT - Math Range (25-75%): 670-760 (admitted)
TPR Projected Range SAT Writing: 690-750 (admitted)
Average Verbal SAT: 691 (admitted)
Average Math SAT: 710 (admitted)
ACT Composite Range (25-75%): 29-33 (admitted)
Average ACT: 31 (admitted)
Students in top 10% of HS class: 83% (admitted)
Students in top 50% of HS class: 100% (admitted)
Total applicants who are accepted: 30% </p>
<p>I am guessing that if the admitted students are so nearly identical, the enrolled classes are as well. You are right that I should not have said "or better". On par would have sufficed. I should have qualified "or better" by saying that Tufts is better in certain subjects (and, of course, vice-versa).</p>
<p>PS: The reason I don't use USNews is because I find them highly unreliable in terms of using outdated stats, #s. For example, at least three universities have said (look up in LexisNexis) that they were never asked for their numbers, or were, but asked before they became available, so USNews used the ones from the year before. Case in point, USNews lists Tufts' acceptance rate as 28% though it was 26.6%, etc. Sarah Lawrence's president even said publicly that USNews was going to guesstimate what the class' SAT average was if SLC didn't submit scores (due to the fact that SLC will no longer consider SATs).</p>
<p>To me the schools are essentially equal academically and in terms of name recognition. Any advantage that Duke has in name recognition is due to the athletic program, so people who only know Duke in that regard have no idea how good it is academically.</p>
<p>Despite what various rankings may say, the best way to compare schools is to see the types of students that they accept. From what I have seen, both schools are basically equal, with Northwestern maybe even having a slight edge.</p>
<p>I would probably pick Northwestern. The access to Chicago and the nice suburb of Evanston appeal to me more than the Southern atmosphere of Duke and the town of Durham, which has a bad reputation.</p>
<p>Tufts has to have the most hypersensitive students on these forums. Lolabelle, your statement did imply, if not outright state, that Tufts, as an institution is on par with or superior to Northwestern. Anyone with common sense would realize that this includes faculty and departmental rankings, not just student qualifications. When Sam Lee provides all sorts of data re: departmental and peer assessment rankings, you then change gears and focus solely on admissions data. </p>
<p>While no one doubts that Tufts is a wonderful institution with eminently qualified students, your response is bordering on a non-sequitur (sp?). The fact is, NWU and Tufts are very different entities, with the former being a major research institution and Tufts being only a few decades removed from its LAC roots, moving toward becoming more of a research-focused school.</p>
<p>I'll take it from here.</p>
<p>OK, fine let's look at what Sam wrote:</p>
<p>overall college (#14 vs #27) <-- relying on rankings, really?</p>
<p>medicine (#21 vs #47) <-- we're talking about undergrad here, right?</p>
<p>sciences (every dept including bio) <-- what is your point? that sciences at NU are better than at Tufts? what do you have to back this up with? Tufts' natural sciences are very strong, and med school placement is good as well. sciences at either school are probably pretty comparable</p>
<p>engineering (all departments) <-- this I agree. engineering at NU is better than at Tufts, though I think Tufts lags behind behind it's so small though the individualized attention is prized by students in the engineering school</p>
<p>social sciences like econ, psychology, sociology (there's really no IR ranking; but NU's IR isn't even a full-blown major anyway) <-- again, is your point here that these depts are better at NU? please specify your argument. those depts are pretty good at Tufts too but who knows what you're sayin ghere. so i'll hold off for now</p>
<p>humanities like history and english <-- see above</p>
<p>peer assessment (academic reputation) <-- really, USNews again? Tufts is primarily undergrad focused so that is why it suffers in peer assessment which is widely recognized to concentrate on perceptions of grad programs. this is a very subjective thing. but you know, whatever floats your boat</p>
<p>25-75% SAT range; NU's was just slightly higher, according to US News 2007 edition. Last year data for NU isn't even available but already you've been using Tufts "admitted" (not enrolled) stats to claim Tufts' "academics" (not just SAT) is "negligibly" better than schools like Cornell/Northwestern/JHU. <-- no, look at Lola's previous post</p>
<p>wsj feeder school ranking (despite the fact Tufts is geographically closer to most of top grad schools in the survey) <-- NU has a business school. Tufts does not at neither the undergrad or grad levels. this is assuming that schools are measured by their MBA placement. tufts just probably does not attract that many students who want to get MBAs, or at least not as many as NU</p>
<h1>grads studying at Harvard/Yale law schools <-- Tufts is also a smaller school than NU. whereas there are ~2,000 in each class at NU, there are ~1200 at Tufts</h1>
<p>recruiting from elite IB/consulting firms <-- look at comment re: WSJ ranking for MBA placement</p>
<p>Just FYI: Kofi & I are housemates. The above, we wrote together. (We're CC dorks)..</p>
<p>I guess I just don't understand why Sam is so adamant, always, to say that NU is better in everything. Why can't they be very comparable schools? NU is better in certain things and Tufts in others. They are overall both great schools with each dept probably being very strong due to great faculty and high-achieving students.</p>
<p>Art, you wrote:</p>
<p>
[quote]
The fact is, NWU and Tufts are very different entities, with the former being a major research institution and Tufts being only a few decades removed from its LAC roots, moving toward becoming more of a research-focused school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Agreed, and that's why several of Sam's assertions don't stand strong. Tufts students do not all want to do the same things as NU students, post-graduation, and vice-versa. See the post above KOfi000</p>
<p>Duke has a slight edge in academic rep and recognition (in no small part due to the success of its BB program; otoh, NU has a more competitive FB program).</p>
<p>However, that shouldn't trump fit. </p>
<p>If having access to a major city and all that entails is important, in addition to NU having more of an "artsy" crowd (theatre and muisc majors), tho both schools have strong Greek systems, then NU may be a better choice.</p>
<p>As for the whole "Tufts brouhaha" - unfairly or not, Tufts doesn't quite have the national reach that NU does and the prevailing view seems to be that more people view NU more on par with Duke than Tufts is with NU.</p>
<p>Again - are these difference enough to trump fit? No.</p>
<p>As for cities - while Boston is a fun city, it is a bit on the smaller side.</p>
<p>Chicago has more variety and is like a more maneagable NYC *not you really can;t go wrong with either city).</p>