I have the grateful opportunity to choose among these colleges as my place of study for the next four years. I’ve looked at previous threads and they all say these two are so alike. They all are quite similar in what they present overall imo so I am quite torn by which one I should choose to attend. Some facts I am specifically looking for:
Strong economics (business track) and premed programs. I am currently applied as econ major at both Duke and Penn (Arts and Sciences), but there is still a very strong possibility I may look into premed / Biology as my future. The key is that I would like the option to switch between economics and premed should I need to do that. Overall seeking opinion on which departments are stronger of the two and provide better opportunity
Collaboration and faculty interaction. This is why I also brought up Amherst though its location does makes me slightly hesitate. I want to have good communication with my professors and know me relatively well. Duke has excellent FLUNCHes program that seems awesome, but both universities aren't humongous so I believe reaching faculty wouldn't be too difficult. Also, just want a quick two cents on how competitive both colleges are. I've heard high praise of collaborative work to nightmares like UC weed out classes cutthroatism..
Location does kinda matter. By campus Duke is far and away the best with the most pleasant weather but Durham seems much less exciting and engaging as a big city like Philly. I have visited both Duke and Penn on day trips, so I wanted an opinion of student life and if Philly has a massive advantage over Durham.
Also, please do NOT factor cost into this discussion, it will not affect my decision. I appreciate your comments.
Duke is not known for being competitive – in fact they have grade inflation. I don’t know about competitiveness at Penn but I’m guessing it’s not bad. I think Cornell is the only Ivy that works students really hard…
Duke has the nicer atmosphere and amenities – the campus is immaculate. Durham is not large but it’s a very hip and cool city with a strong night life, art scene, very progressive politics, etc. It’s the Brooklyn of the South, in my opinion – lots of hipsters and facial hair, lol!
Penn is more ‘authentic,’ urban and slightly gritty – though tbh I haven’t been there in years. Philly is a great city and proximity to NY is a plus for me.
Amherst would be totally different – it’s surprising that you’d be interested in it if you are so interested in Duke and Penn so if you really are you might want to explain the ‘whys’ more.
If you want great school w/ excellent faculty, facilities, and support/opportunities choose Duke. If you want more ‘old school’ high brow, slightly crusty Ivy, choose Penn.
You can complete premed requirements as an economics major. Our pediatrician did this at Brown and DH’s oncologist has an MBA, there are many links for a career in medicine.
Philly offers a lot of opportunities as an undergraduate: city opportunities affordable to students, good cheap eats at family owned restaurants, University City as a whole and Penn’s campus. Penn students tend to work hard and then play hard within the academic club, sports club team, D1 team and Greek life social structures. Many many events are organized and scheduled. You will always have opportunities for fun and at the same time an understanding that research and academics come first. Exhausting, but a healthy way to explore, make wonderful life long connections and become an adult. Penn is referred to as the social Ivy for a reason. I would say that my children have a better experience in Philly (the gritt makes everything more affordable) than they would have had in Boston. Don’t know the Durham area.
The STEM core classes are graded on a C curve especially SEAS and premed science classes. SEAS students say that premed CAS students tend to be more competitive for their A grades but that may be because engineering students learn early on that collaborating on problem sets and labs is the best way to learn their only survival path.
@AlmostThere2018 Thank you for your insight on both of these schools! To answer your question, I was still somewhat considering Amherst because of the opportunities with faculty I am able to engage in. I was just concerned that at these larger research universities that I would receive little to no interaction with my professors. Bottom line is I want to have strong letters of recommendation for Grad School, etc, and also just to have a stronger understanding of the material I am learning in class. Overall, it may come down to location. From your post it seems Durham is a little more lively than I thought, but I still feel like Philly would have more to offer. Overall it seems as if Penn is the better city but Duke offers the better college experience? Might have to flip a coin on this!
@KLSD Thank you for your response! I just want to understand a little more about being a economics major and taking premed courses. Overall does that open the up the options to choose either a career in business or medicine later down the path, or is it mostly just “easier” to complete premed requirements as a econ major as opposed to, say a Biology major? It is my wish to be able to explore in college a little, maybe the first (maybe second) year before committing to a track, so I just want to know by that premise if Duke or Penn jumps out more. Also, in terms of grit, would this be more of the overall student culture at Penn or is it the toughness that you need to obtain in order to be successful in Philly? Thanks a lot!
You will have endless options to explore before declaring a major. Research may be a good way for you to explore, CURF is the office at Penn. There are no specific premed courses because the requirements are general science and math courses. Science and engineering majors take the same courses.
Grit refers to Philly as the poorest of the largest US cities. This opens many more affordable options for students. Student lead organizations of all kinds (club, academic, Greek) rent resturants, a river cruise, museum, rooftop venue for events. There are plenty of affordable concerts, festivals, Reading Terminal market and theatre events. Food trucks on and near campus provide good affordable ethic eats. Yes, Philly has a higher crime rate, but Penn police dept is the second largest private police force and they do a terrific job of enforcing a wide area around University City. There are multiple Philly public transportation options plus Uber. I’m not sure you can even compare a large northeast working class city to Durham. Philly is very different than Boston which is filled with universities and hospitals.
Student body is larger at Penn and sports events are not comparable to Duke.
MrClutch, have you visited Amherst College yet? If not, please do so. I think that you will find far more “collaboration and faculty interaction” at the undergraduate level at Amherst than at either of the large universities you are considering. Also the town of Amherst, with UMass on one side and Amherst College on the other, has plenty student-oriented businesses and activities. Nearby Northampton is another vibrant college town.
Amherst College offers both a strong economics major and excellent premed advising. Since you are undecided about your major and your eventual career, you should keep your options open while exploring your interests. As a first-year student you could start with an economics course and one or more of the recommended premed courses. After a few semesters you will learn where your strengths and interests lie. Then you can choose a major and decide whether to continue the premed courses.
Give Amherst some serious consideration. In my opinion it is your best option for your undergraduate education.
@KLSD Thank you for your insight on Philly! I visited last summer and walked around Penn both during the day and in the evening. It definitely has a large city feel and though crime can be a concern, I saw the many police patrolling the area and residential halls being required to have card swipe. Safety isn’t my concern in regards to attending Penn, its just the overall feel of living in a large, cosmopolitan city in addition to the academic aspect.
@Fifty I haven’t visited Amherst, sadly when I went on my Northeast tour of colleges :(. And that lies the root to my reservations about choosing the college. Of course, I’ve heard with the college consortium and a fairly large institution nearby in UMass it wouldn’t feel isolated at all. I just don’t know if it is somewhat comparable to Durham in feel, though Durham is larger in size. Yes, this is precisely why I am still seriously considering Amherst in my options, due to the wide liberal arts education that sets up success in whichever field I choose. Do you know how well Amherst places into med school and business school? I’ve heard it is highly recruited by Wall Street, just not sure about grad school admissions. Thanks!
@JenniferClint I agree and this is kind of the crux of my debate. Looking at whether I should have a quintessential college experience or be well set up and connected for graduate school and career wise. This is no knock on Duke at all, I just have seen through overall trends Penn seems to find a little more success placing its students into elite grad schools and careers.
With respect to colleges that send high proportions of their graduates to highly regarded MBA programs, you have captured 15% of the market (from College Transitions):
OP. Just remember much of the great advice here is naturally shaped by selection bias.
Please use the tremendous intellect and leadership traits all of these super elite schools recognized in you to make a reasoned decision.
You know what you like and what seems most aligned with your goals and aspirations. What school just popped into your head after reading that sentence? Choose that one.
Best of luck, congrats and take a minute to smell the roses.
@MrClutch007 That is not true at all actually. Look at the outcomes section of the recently released Wall Street Journal rankings. Duke is tied for first with Harvard.
OP - You’re making this way harder than it needs to be. The academics and grad school/business school placement between virtually all the colleges mentioned so far are a wash. What sort of campus are you looking for?
