Duke Vs U of I Engineering

<p>I was admitted to Pratt through ED but got no aid. I planned on doing BME and maybe even going into consulting/ finance because I'm not sure if engineering is 100% for me. I applied ED bc of their ranked BME and the high % of eng grads that go into business like careers. However 240k a year is ridiculous. Looking at my parents' tax return forms, I have no idea how we got nothing. I've emailed Finaid and my counselor but they won't do anything. My counselor implied that I could back out because of financial reasons, which I've been considering. Duke is my dream school but 240k is a burden to a middle class family, which Duke doesn't seem to have any mercy for.</p>

<p>I got into U of I bioengineering and it's way cheaper. However, I feel that I wouldn't have an opportunity to go into business after engineering, because U of I is less respected by consulting firms. But if I didn't want to stick to bioengineering, I could switch to their ranked EE program. I would go to U of I if I for sure wanted to stay an engineer, but I'd like to do something with finance/consulting in the future.</p>

<p>Pros Duke (61k/year):
more prestigious
more opportunities to go into business
Better sports
warmer weather
research opportunities
smaller size</p>

<h1>2 BMe</h1>

<p>Cons Duke:
Super expensive
limits AP credits</p>

<hr>

<p>Pros U of I (33k/year)
Cheaper- in-state tuition
better overall engineering
better EE ( i may switch over b/c I keep hearing that job outlooks and $ for Bme is awful compared to EE-input on this would be great too)
Accepts all AP ( i have about 50 credits now and plan on getting 20 more this year)
- Would this make it easier to double major in say EE and BME or engineering and business? How much time would that take?
Closer to home</p>

<p>Cons U of I:
less prestigious
less opportunity to work in business
will probably have to stay in engineering when I graduate
crappy sports</p>

<p>If I went to U of I for engineering, would I still be able to find opportunities to work in finance/ consulting as Duke? Do companies look for engineers to be consultants at U of I? How are the job placement % b/w the two? Also, could anyone compare EE between Duke and U of i? In my situation, Is Pratt worth twice the price of U of I?</p>

<p>Any input would be highly appreciated. Thanks!</p>

<p>The problem is that after paying for the cost of Duke, my family would be left with about 10k a year to save. I don’t really think that is feasible</p>

<p>But you’ll end up making a lot more. You won’t get into a top consulting firm from U of I, they really only hire from Top 10 schools. Banking is a little different, but it would still be hard from U of I to get a BB.</p>

<p>10k extra a year to save, or 10k for all living expenses? I can’t believe they’d take 6/7ths of your family’s income unless your family has a lot in assets and home equity. If you do, then they are not offering aid because you have the resources somewhere to pay for the cost of attendance. You have to weigh the pros and cons of getting a degree from Duke and decide if it’s worth the investment and burden on your family. For many people it is, but that’s a decision you will have to make based on your own circumstances!</p>

<p>10k extra to save, but will the job i get from Duke pay off at a much higher salary than U of I? or is it impossible to tell?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Unfortunately, financial aid is meant to help families with no other means to pay for college, and not to help families save more. I agree that your parents should not sacrifice their retirement-- but they shouldn’t expect Duke to pay to allow your parents to save, either. If your family is able to save 10k, after living expenses, a Duke education, and retirement contributions, you shouldn’t expect aid from Duke, sorry.</p>

<p>You say that you’re surprised at the FA offer. What’s your family’s income (which end of middle class)? Do y’all own a small business or more than one home? Go through the CSS Profile you submitted line by line, and check that those numbers are all correct, and that there’s not an extra zero somewhere. Run the net-price calculator and see how far off the numbers are.</p>

<p>I would not take out private loans to attend a school (beyond the federal loan limits)-- any school, even Duke. But if your parents are willing to invest in your future, and your family has the means to pay-- but maybe it’ll mean no expensive vacations or no new computers and tech gadgets for four years-- I’d say Duke is worth it.</p>

<p>@purpleacorn</p>

<p>I realize this but I have another sibling who will be going to college in two years. When this happens, is it likely that we’ll both get some help from financial aid?</p>

<p>It’ll depend on what Duke has determined your Estimated Family Contribution is.</p>

<p>For two in college:

</p>

<p>[Awarding</a> Policies and Guidelines | Duke Financial Aid](<a href=“http://financialaid.duke.edu/awarding-and-policy]Awarding”>http://financialaid.duke.edu/awarding-and-policy)</p>

<p>So if your EPC is 65k (expected parent contribution, derived from income and assets), in your junior year, Duke will recalculate your EPC to 39k. That’ll mean, from a
61k COA - 2.5k student summer contribution - 39k parent contribution = 19.5k in need
19.5k in need- 5k loans - 2.2k work study = 12.3k in grant aid.</p>

<p>However, if your EPC is 86k in your junior year, the new EPC would be 51.6k. That would mean
61k COA - 2.5k student summer contribution - 51.6k parent contribution = 6.9k in need
6.9k in need - 5k loans - 1.9 k work study = 0 in grant aid.</p>

<p>There is no way to determine what type of support your sibling would receive at hir other school. If the school meets full need, 60% for a second sibling is pretty common. However, if zie chooses a school that doesn’t meet full need regardless (like U of I), there would probably be no additional need-based support.</p>

<p>Alice, this is a family decision, not the kid’s decision in isolation. And signing up for up to a $120,000 cost differential with another child bound for college isn’t an easy call for most people. We also don’t know what the family is saving for. It could be significant anticipated medical or long term care costs. All we can do is give our thoughts on how and why Duke would be a better experience. We can’t assign this family’s consumption utility to those differences.</p>

<p>I chose Duke BME over Illinois and definitely don’t regret my decision. Although, admittedly, Duke offered me a generous aid package. I now work as a consultant - Duke definitely prepared me well for a business/tech consulting career despite not taking any business courses. If saving $10k/year after paying for college isn’t enough, frankly you shouldn’t have applied ED. It sounds like your family can clearly afford it, but you’re just wondering if Duke is worth the price premium. Impossible to say, but since it’s not a massive burden as your family must be pretty well off and you applied ED, I’d recommend you stay true to your commitment and look forward to attending one of the best schools and programs in the country! If you truly couldn’t afford it and you’d have to take out private loans, that’s another situation. (And I’m not saying Duke is clearly worth $150k more than U of I for everybody, but you and your family should make that sort of determination before applying ED). I’m sure you won’t trade your Duke experience for anything- good luck! Everybody I know who studied BME at Duke got a great job at graduation even if the BME job prospects aren’t necessarily considered amazing nationwide. ECE is also great at Duke and I know of many electrical engineers who got positions at top firms in the industry.</p>

<p>bluedog: “If saving $10k/year after paying for college isn’t enough, frankly you shouldn’t have applied ED.”</p>

<p>You’re absolutely right, bluedog.</p>

<p>Chicago365, I’m sure you used Duke’s financial assistance calculator before submitting your ED application. Did the computed results substantially differ from your financial assistance offer? If they did not, you – and your family – made a COMMITMENT, which I believe you are ethically bound to honor, especially since you are concerned with REDUCED savings, not with significant debt. By applying ED you obtained a Duke admissions advantage, vis-a-vis the RD candidate pool; it’s plainly unfair to “expect it both ways”: ED selection without ED obligation.</p>

<p>@toptier
the NPC estimated that id receive 19-20k in aid, which is why my family and i were caught off guard when we got our actual aid package. Ive talked to Finaid multiple times and I know that it’s an “estimate,”" but how can you estimate 20 grand off!?</p>

<p>Are your parents divorced? Do either of them own a small business? Are you an intl student or do you have foreign income? All of these will throw the NPC estimate off. </p>

<p>If you’ve talked to FinAid, I’m assuming all of the information on the Profile is correct, line-by-line, and the offer they’ve given you is more or less final. If you’ve ‘normal circumstances,’ I’d be pretty surprised if the estimate was that off, and that’s definitely a sign that the formula needs to be tweaked.</p>

<p>@Chicago: I honestly don’t know, but I 'd offer the following sequential suggestions:

  1. Call (and immediately follow up with a letter carefully worded and articulate letter, not an e-mail) the director of FA – no one else – explaining how ardently you want to attend Duke and that the NPC indicated approximately in $20K annual assistance.
  2. Then acknowledge that you’re aware that the $20K is only an estimate, but you – and your family (mention your younger sister’s plans) – RELIED UPON THAT ESTIMATE.
  3. Request re-computation, again emphasizing your heartfelt commitment to Duke, but also the financial realities of your situation.</p>

<p>Thanks for the advice everyone.
How is the average salary of a bme or ee w/ an undergrad going into the field? Is it enough to be worth the 100k differential?
And how are the salaries of undergrad engineers who go into consulting/ finance?</p>

<p>Duke doesn’t release salary information, but starting salaries in the field are about $62k. I wouldn’t expect an engineer from Duke to earn much different than one with a degree from Illinois. However, Duke certainly will give you a leg up compared to IL in finance/consulting as all the top firms recruit at Duke - it’s a target school. And these firms pay quite well with signing bonuses too. A school like IL is not on the radar of firms like McKinsey, Bain, BCG, Goldman, etc. but Duke gets many first year associates every year (they frequently appear in the list of Duke grad’s top 20 employers).</p>

<p>Engineering as a rule doesn’t care all that much about the prestige of somebody’s undergrad school, although Duke certainly prepares its students exceptionally well with small class sizes and over 90% of undergrads participating in research among other things. But finance/consulting certainly does weigh the school heavily and Duke is near the top of all lists. I majored in BME thinking I’d eventually get an engineering job, but I evolved over time and found consulting to be a better fit as many Duke students end up doing; and consulting firms LOVE Duke engineers. The curriculum really teaches you how to think critically and problem solve, and will challenge you in a variety of ways. </p>

<p>Good luck with everything!</p>

<p>Chicago365: Please permit me to emphasize one point bluedog did not directly address in his excellent advice. While, understandably, there is great interest in entry- and journeyman-level compensation, where Duke – and its several most selective peers – really is distinguished from entirely reputable, but not superb, institutions is in the opportunity for, and the compensation of, senior leadership . . . and in a wide variety of enterprises and disciplines. A fine Big Ten university qualifies many for entry-level jobs – although, significantly, NOT always in the most sought after firms or in the most highly competitive fields – however, simply reviewing the summary-level biographical information in Forbes, BWeek, Fortune, etc. of “Fortune 500” CEOs, CFOs, CIOs, COOs, and so forth absolutely indicates that a highly disproportionate number have degrees (undergraduate, postgraduate and especially professional) from the so-called elite (a term I detest, but I’m trying to be coldly realistic) universities.</p>

<p>Obviously, there is nothing at all wrong with not aspiring to such positions, in such enterprises; but, Chicargo365, this thread has fundamentally focused on your likely return-on-undergraduate-investment at Duke versus Illinois. The basic intent of this post is simply to highlight that the greatest potential compensation differential is NOT in the first fifteen or twenty years after undergraduate graduation, but rather in the decades thereafter, when some individuals accede to extremely lucrative leadership positions.</p>