Duke vs. UChicago vs. USC Marshall (possibly Trustee) v. Emory Goizueta (scholarship)

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
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<p>I guess I'm pretty lucky to have these choices haha...</p>

<p>Anyways, I got accepted to UChicago EA, got a Duke likely letter, am a Trustee scholarship (full tuition) finalist for USC Marshall, and am also an Emory Goizueta Scholars finalist (also full tuition if I interview well). After undergrad, I'm primarily interested in working in consulting, but am open to other fields of business as well - especially marketing. I'm not a big finance person, though. And I do eventually want to get an MBA.</p>

<p>So I'm just wondering what the opportunities are like at UChicago as compared to the rest of these schools (if you know about these schools' programs). And I visited UChicago a couple of days ago, and I liked it enough.</p>

<p>(oh, and I did post this in other schools' forums too)</p>

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<p>oh, and how competitive is the Chicago Careers in Business? Like is it a very selective application process?</p>

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<p>Check out what I posted on the Duke thread you made. Chicago is a great school and is close enough to Duke when it comes to Investment Banking but not Consulting. Duke is your best choice here unless you strongly prefer Chicago, Emory or USC.</p>

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<p>"oh, and how competitive is the Chicago Careers in Business? Like is it a very selective application process? "</p>

<p>As far as I know, it’s not terribly difficult to get into once you’re into the College and performing decently (i.e., GPA of 3.0 or higher, etc.). But once you’re in, it’s quite a challenging program, which is why it’s well-respected and will become even more widely respected in the future.</p>

<p>Many UChicago graduates go into consulting, and do quite well. Financial concerns aside, it is certainly better to go to UChicago than USC/Emory, and it might be better than Duke. You especially have to take account of general prestige, and Chicago will likely have a significantly better reputation than Duke when you graduate in 4 years.</p>

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<p>@phuriku, do you have any hard numbers regarding admittance into CCIB or know where to get them?</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, I don’t, and I don’t know if that information is public.</p>

<p>All I know is that I know quite a few people in the program and that I don’t actually know anyone who has been rejected. There’s a possibility that it could get more competitive as time goes on, since CCIB’s only been around for a few years and has only recently become popular around campus.</p>

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<p>

I would expect a Chicago grad to know better than to make unfounded claims like that. As you know, Chicago’s yield and selectivity is only recently catching up to Duke’s and it will be very unlikely for either to jump too far ahead of the other in the foreseeable future. IMHO, it’s easier for a school’s acceptance rate to drop from 30% to 15% like Chicago’s has than for a university to the next step and drop it from 15% to 6% (Harvard and Stanford level).</p>

<p>To the OP, both are great schools but Duke is better for your intended career goal IMO.</p>

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<p>Goldenboy:
I agree that it will be much more difficult for UChicago 's acceptance rate to drop into the single digits and would expect, rather, for it to trend comparable to Duke’s over the next few years.</p>

<p>However, I think you are upbraiding Phuriku unjustly. The claim was wrt “reputation” rather than selectivity: “You especially have to take account of general prestige, and Chicago will likely have a significantly better reputation than Duke when you graduate in 4 years.”</p>

<p>Chicago has long had a reputation amongst those who know academia for providing, arguably, a liberal arts education that is second to none in quality and rigor within an experiential context that is decidedly more intellectual in terms of general campus tone, as compared to peer schools and HYPS. What’s been changing under Zimmer, and now with Nondorf, is that the word is getting circulated much more broadly, leading to increasing selectivity and a stronger (by the numbers, at least) student body.</p>

<p>Chicago’s not for everybody (of those with the credentials to get admitted); nor is Duke, which has a significantly different flavor to the undergraduate experience. Both are fantastic schools. I do, think, however, that Phuriku’s point, though overstated (substitute “somewhat” for “significantly”), may yet prove to have some merit, if only because Chicago’s recent momentum is likely to promote a “virtuous cycle,” feeding upon itself in substantive gains intra-university as well as in popular perception and so, reputation.</p>

<p>Now, back to the original question: it should be a two school race (leaving aside affordability or other non-academic considerations that could factor into one’s decision). Historically, Duke has had the stronger hand in consulting. However, speaking as a senior consultant (now retired) with a major firm, Chicago’s focus on rigorous coursework, Socratic method, independent thinking, and substantiating one’s positions prepares its students supremely well for the intellectual challenges (there are others) of the field. As word continues to get out, I think this will be increasingly recognized by the top firms.</p>

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<p>Yes, it all comes down to the meaning of phuriku’s phrase “general prestige.” </p>

<p>If this means something like the school’s ranking by U.S. News, then phuriku is right. If this means something like name recognition among college hoops fans, then the point goes to goldenboy ;-)</p>

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<p>UChicago has always been higher ranked by academia than Duke and now that U.S. News also reflects this fact, the prestige advantage goes to UChicago. Others, such as professors at Cornell, have done studies showing the direct measurable affect rankings have on admissions. </p>

<p>In addition, because UChicago has a smaller class size and its applications are growing faster, UChicago’s admit rate will drop below Duke’s by next year most likely or soon thereafter.</p>

<p>UChicago
Year / Applications / Change in Apps / Admit Rate
2014 / 30,578/ 10%/ ?
2013 / 27,798/ 10%/ ?
2012:/ 25,271/ 16.12%/ 13.6%?
2011:/ 21,762/ 11.85%/ 15.82%
2010:/ 19,374/ 42%/ 18.82%
2009:/ 13,564/ --/ 27%</p>

<p>Duke
Year / Applications / Change in Apps / Admit Rate
2012:/ 31,545/ 6.13%/ 11.9%
2011:/ 29,724/ 10.43%/ 12.6%
2010:/ 26,770/ 20%/ 15.71%
2009:/ 22,280/ --/ 18.94%</p>

<p>The difference between UChicago and Duke in admit rate may be less than 1% this year, though that won’t be known until March.</p>

<p>Indeed, the Duke newspaper has noted their own rise is not as fast these days as UChicago’s:
<a href=“http://dukechronicle.com/article/dukes-rise-applicants-contrasts-decline-some-ivy-l-2[/url]”>http://dukechronicle.com/article/dukes-rise-applicants-contrasts-decline-some-ivy-l-2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Truth123:</p>

<p>These stats, then, point to UChicago and Duke being peer schools, nothing more. A slight difference in acceptance rate doesn’t mean much at all.</p>

<p>Perhaps it’s possible that UChicago’s accept rate will dip below Duke’s in a couple years. What will that really mean, though? So UChicago may have a 10.1% accept rate, and Duke would have a 10.6% accept rate? So what?</p>

<p>In terms of career options, the schools are also extremely similar:</p>

<p><a href=“Home | CareerAdv”>Home | CareerAdv;

<p>and</p>

<p><a href=“Duke Student Affairs”>Duke Student Affairs;

<p>Both schools have about 15 - 20% of seniors with jobs going into consulting. I’d imagine similar firms make offers to students at both UChicago and Duke, with perhaps some favoritism by certain firms for one of the two schools. Overall, though, if you want consulting generally, both schools seem strongly represented. </p>

<p>Again, I think goldenboy and Phuriku are misguided in trying to form any conclusive analysis about a separation between these two schools. The schools have different cultures and different feels, but in terms of exit options, they are pretty much dead even.</p>

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<p>Historically Duke is a more or less bigger name than Columbia, Upenn, UChicago and some other peers. Duke has an overall rating at 6.3 (average U.S. News & World Report rankings from 1983 to 2007), while UChicago has a 10.6. (FYI: Harvard 1.7, Princeton 2.1, Yale 2.4, Stanford 4.3, MIT 5.5, Columbia 10.4, Upenn 10.1). Duke is so-called Southern Harvard, UChicago is catching up in last 4 years, with #5, or top 9 in last year’s U.S. News & World Report list. Duke’s #10 or top 10 in last year’s list doesn’t mean Duke’s reputation is below any of its immediate peers.</p>

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<p>@david05 Check the 3 major world university rankings and see where Duke lands compared with UChicago. UChicago is higher in all 3. Clearly you are not familiar with any of the National Research Council Rankings of American Higher Education for this century, all of which place UChicago above Duke… To say nothing of any of the other graduate school rankings, besides U. S.News.</p>

<p>And I am sorry, that one year does make a difference, which is why UChicago is up more this year. You should read the Cornell study which shows an immediate predictable admissions gain based on a single year of U.S. News rankings, let alone several.</p>

<p>It’s simple math. Because of its smaller class size, UChicago at 25,000 applications is about as selective as Duke with 31,000. UChicago has more room to grow its applications than Duke. Various universities get 31,000 apps a year these days and UChicago will be soon be one of them. It will be harder for Duke to continue to grow its app (though I hope it does because again this shows what UChicago will also do.)</p>

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<p>@cue7 Unfortunately, you are being too rational, which high school students and their parent aren’t. (This was UChicago’s downfall in the past.) We are talking the rankings and prestige game. I have had people on CC scrutinize schools over a .1 difference in admissions selectivity. It does matter to applicants, however silly it is. </p>

<p>Also, it is a well-known fact that rankings are a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you just picked a school at random and claimed that it is number one, a certain percentage of people will believe you, no matter how crazy the claim may be. The longer the claim persists, the more people will believe you. Again, a Cornell study verified a direct quantifiable connection between rankings and an immediate increase in applications.</p>

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<p>Finally, we can all speculate as much as we want but real truth will be known next year and the year after. If UChicago continues to skyrocket or fizzles… (Go UChicago!)</p>

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<p>“As you know, Chicago’s yield and selectivity is only recently catching up to Duke’s and it will be very unlikely for either to jump too far ahead of the other in the foreseeable future.”</p>

<p>Chicago will easily have a higher selectivity as measured by US News than Duke for the Class of 2015, and a greater disparity will be felt the following year. Nobody cares about acceptance rate other than fickle high school students. Chicago has much higher SATs, which is a much greater measure of student selectivity and student quality. If you just go by acceptance rate, the College of the Ozarks is a more selective school than MIT.</p>

<p>“Again, I think goldenboy and Phuriku are misguided in trying to form any conclusive analysis about a separation between these two schools. The schools have different cultures and different feels, but in terms of exit options, they are pretty much dead even.”</p>

<p>As of last year’s graduating class, yes, Duke and Chicago were peers. But in 5 years, when OP will be graduating? Not a chance. And for those who don’t think that schools change reputation in so short of a time, I might note that 4-5 years ago, Northwestern was considered to have a slightly better reputation than Chicago. Nowadays, it would be hard to even classify them as peers.</p>

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<p>“As of last year’s graduating class, yes, Duke and Chicago were peers. But in 5 years, when OP will be graduating? Not a chance.”</p>

<p>Phuriku, where do you see UChicago being in five years, exactly? Both you and Truth123 seem to have some very bold visions for the school, and one that I’m not sure I share. </p>

<p>In 5 years, I anticipate Duke will continue to do remarkably well, and UChicago will as well. Do you all of a sudden see UChicago placing twice as many kids at consulting firms than Duke in 2017? Will UChicago be ranked #3 and Duke #13 in the rankings? </p>

<p>Most likely, these schools will continue to be banded close together.</p>

<p>Also, when you referenced Northwestern - you don’t consider them peers because (you imply) there is some sort of prestige difference between these two schools? Again, I don’t know how to respond to that, because these schools are clustered quite tightly together. I wouldn’t consider, say UChicago and Drexel peers, but Northwestern and UChicago seem comparable on a variety of metrics, just as Duke and Penn and UChicago and Cornell are all peers. </p>

<p>As I said in another post, I don’t understand why you magnify relatively slight differences between schools. You say: “Nowadays, it would be hard to even classify them as peers.”</p>

<p>Really? You want to establish such a marked difference between NU and UChicago? The schools have very different cultures and atmospheres, but, to me, they seem to be peers in the sense that they are both tippy top schools. So UChicago has a 4.6 peer rep and NU has a 4.4, or say NU’s endowment is a little larger than UChicago’s. These are such slight differences, but you make such bold assertions about the differences between these institutions. It’s unfounded.</p>

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<p>Also, truth123 - perhaps in admissions and when choosing where to apply, all this stuff matters, but the OP is in a very different position. He/she wants to CHOOSE between schools that have already accepted him/her. At this point, the OP is well served to try and access as much hard data as possible. Slight differences in accept rate or the like don’t have any place for the OP at this point in his/her analysis.</p>

<p>I understand what you mean of these perceptions mattering, but the OP has ALREADY finished the admissions cycle (basically). Now, it’s time for the OP to consider the hard data - not subjective US News rankings or (for the OP right now, who has already been admitted) acceptance rates.</p>

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<p>Duke is not better known than Penn, Columbia, etc… the guy who said that is ■■■■■■■■ and probably attends Duke</p>

<p>USC and emory are both garbage; if I were you I wouldn’t go to either despite having full scholarship, unless you cannot afford college otherwise. Duke probably has a better social scene than Uchicago, but the academics are obviously inferior. Uchicago is known as being a very rigorous school. I’m not sure if there is much of a difference between either for finance recruitment</p>

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<p>nobody is talking about financial aspect yet.</p>

<p>Come back and ask this question again when you get a full tuition scholarship. That changes the equation depending on your family’s financial situation. Even if your family can pay it out of pocket, $190K is a big factor, especially if it’s coming from a very good school (either USC or Emory), not some Podunk University that does not occupy the same university with the likes of U Chicago or Duke. Imagine starting your adult life with $190K in your pocket - you can go get an MBA at a spiffy program and still have money left over. I am not saying $$$ is everything: after all, I let my S1 go to U Chicago as a full pay student when he had a full ride at another school. That was a great choice - for him… However, I can easily see other circumstances where an opposite choice would have been a better one.</p>

<p>BTW:</p>

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<p>Whoa ---- I am speechless.</p>