<p>I agree with both these points, but they are separate issues from the RP study and cross-admit battles. The percentage that each school takes ED is irrelevant when dealing with head-to-head scenarios between schools. ED students are not part of the study because they cannot possibly choose between two schools, given that they have already chosen one.</p>
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<p>This is spin, plain and simple. The reason why Duke doesn’t accept more ED applications is because that would weaken the strength of the student body. The ED applicant pool at Columbia/Penn is deeper than that at Duke. That is why they can accept a higher percentage of ED students than Duke. If you truly believe that Duke cares more about “fairness” than its peer institutions, then I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn I’d love to sell you.</p>
<p>This is an interesting site to look at that uses real results…</p>
<p>college dot mychances dot net</p>
<p>Go to colleges and then cross-admit comparisons.</p>
<p>According to this site , Duke wins 56% of the cross-admits against UPenn (although not enough data to show statistically significant, so the 95% confidence interval is huge at 39.0% to 72.3%) , 77% vs. Cornell (with a lot more data; 95% confidence interval is 67.0% to 86.4%), 37% vs. Brown (again, not enough data really…), 24% vs. Columbia (with enough data).</p>
<p>In any event, here’s a quick list of schools and the percentage of students Duke “wins” in cross-admit battles according to the site (using student provided data), with an asterisk indicating not enough data to show a statistical difference at the 95% confidence level and bolding the ones that are statistically different:</p>
<p>So, if you believe that (which honestly I think it’s relatively accurate, Duke clearly beats Cornell and clearly loses to HYSM + Columbia. And there’s not enough data to say it definitively beats or loses to UPenn, Dartmouth, Princeton, Cal Tech, and Brown. (I’m fairly certain it loses to Princeton, Brown, and CalTech while being competitive with UPenn and Dartmouth). So, with this in mind, I’ve calculated Duke as between #9 and #12 in revealed preference for schools in the Top 20. Seems reasonable to me. 19, on the other hand, is a bit low.</p>
<p>Not to defend Princeton, but there is no way Duke gets anywhere close to 40% of cross-admits from Princeton. I personally know students who chose Princeton over full-rides at Duke, so I doubt only 60% of Princeton-Duke cross-admits would choose Princeton when costs are not a factor. According to this website, Princeton fares no better against Duke than does Dartmouth? That flies in the face of common sense.</p>
<p>^Did you not read my post AT ALL? Reading is a good skill to have…There wasn’t enough data for Princeton and I acknowledged that it’s a known fact that Princeton beats Duke easily. The bold schools were the only ones where there is enough data to show a statistical difference at the 95% confidence interval. The site just didn’t have enough Duke and Princeton cross-admits in their system. And the NY Times “study” is all hypothetical asking people what they’d choose and opposed to accumulating actually results. Sounds like a great, reliable study to me… ::rollseyes::</p>
<p>Given that neither the Princeton vs. Duke nor the Dartmouth vs. Duke cross-admit battles have sufficient data, it is not altogether unreasonable to compare them to each other.</p>
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<p>So is proper etiquette.</p>
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<p>Then why post something that is misleading in the first place? All you’ve done is cast doubt on the credibility and reliability of the website.</p>
<p>^Yes, I agree it’s far from perfect. Self reported studies certainly aren’t the best. But neither are hypothetical selection studies (NY Times) where somebody didn’t actually make the decision. In any event, just thought I’d provide another site’s data, but of course it should be looked at with a grain of salt and not definitive in any way. The only way to get definitive data would be to randomly give out student surveys, have a 100% response rate or near that, and have the results validated by an outside source. Obviously, that’s not going to happen. I posted the incomplete data set results just to be “complete” so I couldn’t be accused of leaving schools out purposefully. I thought I clearly indicated to disregard it by using the asterisk.</p>
<p>In my experience, most (not all) people who dispute the findings of the Revealed Preference study either haven’t read it or didn’t understand it.</p>
<p>hmmm, I find it interesting that the my chances dot net methodology has Notre Dame ranked #7 in the country. Much more based on student preference and peer review than graduate school research statistics. Very interesting. Probably due to high marks from the Asian students ND attracts.</p>
<p>If Duke had accepted 50% of its ED applicants for the Class of 2013, it would have accepted 240 students more. Had this happened, they probably would not have to admit more than 150 students from the waiting list. However, does this change the number of admitted students? </p>
<p>Now, had they admitted 790 students in ED versus 550, would Duke have admitted fewer than the 3,672 they admitted in RD. Remember Duke would need about 900 to 1000 students in RD. Considering the 157 students admitted from the waiting list, it is very logical to conclude that Duke under-admitted in its RD cycle. </p>
<p>What would the yield be with a 50% admit in ED and essentially the same rate in RD. Or are you suggesting that they would have admitted 240 fewer students, namely 3,430 students? </p>
<p>Either way, it does not change much that Duke’s yield for RD was about 33% in 2013, and that 200 more students in ED would not change much as all, especially since Duke filled the class with using a large waiting list, a very high yield crutch if there is one!</p>
<p>As jumpfroggyjump wrote, this is pure and simple spin. Duke IS accepting a VERY high percentage of students in its ED round (that is the admit rate.) The reason why the absolute number remains low is because of Duke’s relatively weaker appeal in a binding round. To enroll 50% of its freshman class from the ED round, Duke would have to admit a percentage of all applicants that is not compatible with its ranking and reputation.</p>
<p>@Bluedog, Duke does not win the cross admit battle against Cornell or any other Ivies, did you see the data Superfly posted right below yours? That seem more reliable than your analogies. Furthermore, I agree with some of the other posters that Duke under admitted students and predicted a higher yield than what they actually received inturn. How else can you explain that over 200 students are already admitted from the waitlist has of May 11th?</p>
<p>To specify: in posts #37 & #39, I am referring to how actual cross-admit battles may play out, not to the RP study itself per se. It’s confusing to say that the RP study “excludes ED students.” More accurately, I mean that the RP study excludes ED **as a factor for **students so that it is not (what the study calls) a “confounding factor.” That way the RP study can fairly determine the cross-admit battles between two ED schools with differential ED (enrollment) rates or even between one school with ED and another without. According to the RP study, they are comparable insofar as they are in “equilibrium,” which is what the study is trying to get at. In other words, in real life, it is difficult and impractical to measure cross-admit rates because of external factors (such as ED status). For example, to compare the real cross-admit rates between Duke RD students and Columbia/Penn RD students may be unfair because the former represents a higher percentage of the applicant pool than the latter. But the RP study’s statistical model controls for this and other “confounding factors” and adjusts accordingly.</p>
<p>Seriously, why does it matter if Duke wins cross-admit battles with the Ivies or not? This topic is belabored too many times on CC. Don’t you have anything better to argue about? Can’t we all just agree that Duke is as good as a school as the Ivies?</p>
<p>If you’re not interested in the discussion, feel free to ignore it. The truth is that it does matter to some CC posters, especially Duke (including prospective) students themselves. The point that I am trying to make is that I have yet to see any compelling evidence that Duke does not lose cross-admit battles to the Ivies. No one is arguing that Duke is not “as good as” the (non-HYP) Ivies, whatever that means. At least not I.</p>
<p>Alright so there are a lot of stats being thrown here but here’s the one that I will include- roughly 50% of Duke students receive financial aid, many of which receive a significant portion; this clearly shows that Duke is not a rich people school. Secondly, nobody knows about a school if they’ve never been there with no personal experience. When I went to Duke, I rarely saw “rich kids” and everyone there appeared to be really cool. And finally, (once again speaking from personal experience) the aid that I received from Duke was incredible (48K) coming from a middle class family making 70K. The same can be said for a couple of my other friends who come from middle class families ranging from 70-100K, who have received great financial aid and actually found Duke to be cheaper than state, public schools. Ironically enough, the vibe that I get from CC and from other friends of mine who can’t “afford” Duke are those that are from “rich” families, where they do not qualify for FA at Duke and end up choosing other schools where they receive around 5K of FA, which makes those schools a bit cheaper to attend than Duke. So I have no idea where this perception of Duke being a “rich people school” comes from.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, if you talk to those who don’t attend Duke or any Ivy/Ivy-ish school, they’ll think that those schools are just full of rich people. That’s because historically, that was the case. Duke is trying hard to shed that image and usually does some sampling now and then to see how it’s going. I’m pretty sure the aforementioned schools are doing the same. Like I said earlier:</p>
<p>Whats going on at Duke? A friend of mine was waitlisted at Duke and received an email from Duke that he can still go on the waitlist if he replied by May 19? Is Duke trying to get students on the waitlist now?</p>