@times3 I took that on as a challenge because every once in a while I can find the elusive info on that impossible website. I came up empty. I had never heard what uskoolfish is saying with respect to ED at Tisch but that doesn’t mean it isn’t exactly how it works. I wish I could point you to someone to ask for the sake of your advisees but it feels like the sort of question one could ask three different people and get three different answers. I do remember the year before my daughter applied talking to a rep at a performing arts college fair and she did say that you should only apply ED at Tisch if you know money is not an issue. You can extrapolate all kinds of things from that and at the time, I didn’t think there was such a thing as non-need merit or talent money at Tisch so I never asked her exactly what she meant. Steinhardt’s website is much more straight forward than Tisch’s and it’s easier to find information about talent and merit there.</p>
<p>Thanks for those replies–it really is important to tell parents and kids that policies can and do change on a yearly basis in general! My own student was applying several years ago, so it seems like a safe assumption that the merit aid process has changed since then. And halflokum, thanks for trying to find the info! :)</p>
<p>I looked at the Tisch website, too. All I could come up with was an elusive statement that said that merit aid is given for academics, but it was unclear whether that was offered to those without any need. I have heard from people who had students applying to Tisch for film this year that they do not offer any non need based aid–talent or academics. Since this family does turn out to have some need, I wouldn’t be able to know if that is true or not,</p>
<p>To further complicate things, the studio art department told me tow years ago that the merit aid that is for talent (no need) is awarded by the art department and that financial aid officers might not be aware of it if you try to ask them about merit aid. They said it is coded/ titled in some way that they might not know of it’s existence.</p>
<p>The year D applied for VP (regular decision) she was awarded academic merit aid by the head of the department in the spring. He had a choice of awarding D either talent of academic merit aid (no need.) Or had in the past. D had worked with him in an NYU summer program, he was very clear to us that he accepted her on a talent basis, and now was awarding her merit aid based on her high grades and talent. But it turned out that NYU’s policy had changed (with him not being aware) and the academic award he offered now had a need component. So our package first came in without any aid. I called him directly and he was shocked to find out that D was not given by financial aid what he had offered to her. It took weeks for him to appeal, and in the end D did get talent merit aid–which is what the department still offers to my knowledge.</p>
<p>Were it not for toowonderful’s daughter, I would have sworn such a thing did not exist at Tisch. They make such a big show of saying it doesn’t. But clearly - there are exceptions to every rule and her daughter is one of them I think it’s awesome and should give one hope. </p>
<p>The thing that makes merit aid from some schools so confusing is that financial aid packages often include a merit component, that is listed as an award for high academics, talent, or other accolades. The student is clearly given that additional money due to their achievement, but it is still part of a financial aid package. So a student with slightly lower talent or academics may still be accepted, but assuming they have the same financial need, their package may be lower–with more of a gap than the student the school wants more.</p>
<p>Now in the case of NYU, students without need are not eligible for those same merit awards that are only offered to students with need. So their academics and talent may be the same or higher, but without need, they don’t have access to that merit money.</p>
<p>Students without need, but with top talent (in Steinhardt and perhaps Tisch) and high academics in perhaps Tisch are eligible for some merit aid that is given out for RD students only. This money appears to be awarded at the departmental level after artistic reviews of top candidates without need in the spring. It seems they are coded in such a way that financial aid people might not be aware that they exist.</p>
<p>If you go to NYU main website about scholarships, talent scholarships are listed in Steinhardt for art and music, but not Tisch. The list of scholars programs is misleading, too. Younger D who was ED candidate made the Steinhardt Scholars program, but did not receive a penny in merit money. Older D made it as well, but the only merit money she got ($11K/ year) was through her merit aid talent scholarship awarded in RD.</p>
<p>@tramsmom Have you asked the department your child is applying to in Tisch directly about merit aid without need?</p>
<p>Tisch has changed their policy many times through the years. For a long, long time, all aid and scholarships for those entering freshmen were based totally on need. It’s best to check directly with Tisch itself rather than the financial aid department to determine what the current policy is. Historically, Tisch itself does not have an abundance of $$ to give away. Those successful alumni are not donating in sufficient numbers to their alma mater! Knowing the amount that might be awarded for academic merit or talent is also important, too, because a $5000 or $10,000 award, while nice, is not going to make a sufficient difference for many people when the total bill is coming in at around $60,000/yr.</p>
<p>The total bill for a NSB student is close to 70K total as I understand it. So if the top dollar offered is 11K, it remains one of the most expensive MT schools in the country. @uskoolfish, I have not inquired directly with the department, was hoping to do that following D’s audition. I just don’t quite understand why it seems Steinhardt has so much money, and Tisch has so little. </p>
<p>@tramsmom I don’t think that Steinhardt gives that much money in merit aid. Older D did get that $11K a year, but remember that was back in 2008. And she had attended the Steinhart MT summer program, worked with their full-time faculty and was told that she didn’t need to audition for the program (that her work that summer was her audition.) So I would say that her award was on the high end of what they award without need. In subsequent years, I heard that NYU was giving out even less merit $. Based on that, I assumed that it was unlikely my younger D would get much more than $5k to $10K/ year in merit money (if any at all) if she waited to apply RD. So we did forgo the chance for merit money by letting her apply ED1. We wanted to get the process over with, knew we would send her to NYU anyway since her sister went, and wanted to show her portfolio early since It was ready to go anyway and we felt her odds would be higher for acceptance in ED.</p>
<p>The only thing I will say is that Steinhardt shows on the NYU website that they give merit aid, whereas Tisch is not listed on the NYU main site as offering anything.</p>
<p>NYU aid is confusing! My daughter is in her 4th year at Steinhardt after being accepted RD originally. She had a number of AP classes under her belt and a fairly high high school GPA, along with being a National Merit finalist. At the time we qualified for some financial aid, being a divorced teacher with some other income, probably considered middle class. Much to our surprise, Steinhardt gave her a $20,000 per year scholarship, that has continued all 4 years! However, it is all bundled, financial aid, merit and talent, and we have no idea how it was split up. She had auditioned for 14 schools, accepted at 4 BFA MT programs, 2 that offered her no aid at all and one that offered her enough to make it the same price as NYU with her scholarship there. So I would suggest that you might be pleasantly surprised what might be awarded by NYU, as we were, but that you really shouldn’t put those eggs in the basket and count on them. Best of luck - my d has loved the Steinhardt program. Can’t believe those years flew by!</p>
<p>Once you qualify for financial aid at NYU, you may be pleasantly surprised, because they can meet your full need if they really like you. They can do that in many ways and as Christie said above, it is all bundled together. But if you have no need, you won’t be eligible for those same merit scholarships… only those set aside (if any) for students without need and the amount of $ is limited. </p>
<p>@tramsmom, so true. Everything from what alwaysamom said above about things changing from year to year is so true. I know that I gave out bogus info about whether or not one could pick roommates at NYU (based on info back in 2012) only to discover that I was wrong about how it worked only two years later and was rightly corrected. Same could apply to merit or talent scholarships. I didn’t think they existed back in the day. Maybe they did and I just didn’t know it but everything that Tisch said back then suggested they didn’t. I know they existed for 2014 because toowonderful’s daughter got both without need. Yay for that.</p>
<p>Tisch is indeed closer to 70K and if I’m not mistaken, Steinhardt is less. The difference could be a factor of class sizes and or class hours? Feel free to correct me unkoolfish or Christie2 but recent comments in another thread from a current MT in Steinhardt parent with a student currently in MT gave me the impression that class size was more in the 30’s vs. 15-16 which is the case for Tisch. Tisch has 3 days of more or less 9-5 studio classes with academic credits earned on the other two days. I’m not sure how that compares to teaching hours in Steinhardt’s program (which I know is excellent) but if the classes in Tisch are smaller and there are more hours in class, that would probably be the reason for the cost difference I’d guess??? </p>
<p>Yes @tramsmom, apply and see what happens. Good plan :-)</p>
<p>The Steinhardt MT Class of 2018 has 18 students — 12 girls and 6 boys. (According to the composite picture that was posted by several of the students).</p>
<p>This is part of why this board is useful. At a certain point, all you have to rely on is anecdotal evidence so it’s great to have toowonderful’s information. There’s so little transparency at any school about what money is available to whom and on what basis. Each sifting of data provides a different perspective. This opacity is increased when you are looking at small programs within small schools within large universities. </p>
<p>In Tisch’s case the outlook seems far less bleak when toowonderful shares her story. A Google search will identify NYU as an institution notorious for falling very short in meeting students’ demonstrated need while providing and forgiving massive ‘loans’ to administrators’ for personal luxuries. There was quite a bit of local outrage in the wind when Greenwich Village residents were fighting a losing real estate battle over the last several years.</p>
<p>(See NYT and CBS articles excoriating the excessive subsidies by searching “Look who doesn’t deserve financial aid at NYU” Here’s a smidge from CBS: NYU is on the federal government’s “hall of shame” list…The schools that land on this list represent the top five percent of institutions that charge the highest prices after typical grants and scholarships are deducted…According to statistics from the College Board, NYU typically meets just 59 percent of a student’s financial need, and that percentage includes a loan. Just as damning, only three percent of NYU students have their full financial need met. Contrast that to nearby Columbia University, which meets 100 percent of the financial need for all of its students.)</p>
<p>CC posters provide more situation-specific information, in this case, far more encouraging for applicants and their families. That’s a real service to this community.</p>
<p>@halflokum Class size is small in Steinhardt for MT classes. More than one section is offered for most if not all of of the performance based classes. Some classes are specific for MT students, other classes are requirements for both the MT and Classical VP students and still other classes are requirements for all BM students at Steinhardt. I would say that the majority of all classes my daughter took were no larger than 20 and many were smaller. Steinhardt’s and CAS’s tuition is the same. Stern and Tisch is a a bit higher. However, even though all Steinhardt students pay the same tuition, there are additional fees charged for some classes that are supplemental. So there is a fee for voice studio classes and I know I pay a hefty supplemental fee for art studio classes, too. I think that Tisch’s additional tuition reflects the fact that the department pays outsiders (not directly Tisch --NYU–faculty) for some of their studios and classes. Although not structured into a 3 studio days and the rest academic days format, the hours spent in classes in Steinhardt (with many semesters requiring 18 credits) were very long and generally 5 days per week.</p>
<p>Another anecdote…my D went to Tisch, class of 2009. She did qualify for need based aid. I have no idea if the scholarship portion of her aid package was all need or not. But it was $20,000/year in scholarship for all four years. In her senior year at Tisch, she was awarded three more merit based scholarships that were smaller, in addition to the $20,000 that year…a nice surprise!</p>
I think it’s awesome and should give one hope. </p>