<p>My son (he's a sophomore) and I have been talking alot about early decision. Should he find a school that he absolutely loves and is SURE that this is his "one and only", ED seems the best route to take. Apply early, find out soon and if you didn't get in then you still have time to apply to some wonderful other schools. The thing is, we don't really know the proper timetable. There are the SAT's, Subject Tests, AP Tests etc. and other tests I am sure I have left out....If my son applies in the fall of 2009 (November 1st?) when and how should we get all our "ducks in a row"? I would hate for him to have to scramble the beginning of his senior year, and what ever he can do as a sophomore or junior will probably make the experience feel less hectic. I really need the advise of you parent who have already gone through this. Thanks.</p>
<p>My S had all his SATs and SATIIs completed by end of sophomore year (graduating early).<br>
SATIIs are best completed at the end of the course, so S took SATII Chem right after he took AP-Chem. He took the SAT in March, APs in May and two more SATIIs in June. IF he had had to retake, he could have done so in October and again in November.
Of course, by the time of application, he was enrolled in some more APs and would not take the exams until the end of the year, but that is the case of most students who take APs.
Other things to consider: Visit colleges in summer before junior year (if he is willing) and during junior year when colleges are in session.
At the end of junior year, ask teachers if they will be willing to write recs. If possible, discuss with GC the list of colleges to which your S should apply.
during summer after junior year, start thinking about admission essays.</p>
<p>When...NOW! </p>
<p>How...Let me count the ways...and I'm sure there is other good advice than the bones I'm throwing out. Here's a few suggestions.
1. Take the SAT/ACT (twice if needed) by the end of junior year.
2. Communicate the importance of your son's grades/GPA in the first three years of HS. These are the transcript components seen by those making ED selections.
3. Community service and extracurricular participation and leadership roles should be embraced in these same first three years of HS.
4. Make contact. Visit the colleges . Most if not all enjoy showing off their programs and campus plus you and your son will "feel" if it's right. Like it or not but may programs/colleges actually monitor contact to also determine levels of interest.
5. Conference with your son's HS guidence counselor to ensure his course selections meet the needs of the schools and the goals of your son's future...and it is his future.</p>
<p>You have time but don't wait 'til summer of sr. year. Doing so will only add anxiety and pressure to something that can be a wonderful journey, instead of a panic ridden reaction.</p>
<p>Good Luck and have fun.</p>
<p>Fall of 09, so he is a freshman, right?</p>
<p>As a freshman, he should take the PSAT and PLAN, if possible, and any SATII. This may require some legwork on your part, as many schools do not give the PSAT or PLAN to frosh. Most freshmen will not be taking a class that would naturally lead to an SATII, but some might be, especially if they are accelerated. I believe the CB website has some information about which specific classes are recommended prior to the SATII - I'm speaking more of the math and literature/history tests, the others are self-evident. I think most kids on this board take the science SATIIs after the AP course, as Marite describes.</p>
<p>Taking the PSAT and PLAN can give him some idea of whether or not he will do better on the SAT or the ACT. Most kids going to selective schools take at least one setting of each, but not all, particularly in the NE. I would advise at least taking practice tests of each.</p>
<p>Marite is spot on about college visits. Soph year is not too early to start visits, if they are low-key scouting trips. A soph should keep options open! But a visit to a friend or sibling can be fun and an incentive to start thinking about the process. A side trip during a family vacation is also a good idea. We were plain naive with child number one, and ended up doing more visits than were necessary, turning the experience into a chore rather than a learning experience. Don't worry too much about money for visits - go see schools within easy (cheap) reach, even if you don't think your son would ever go there - this is more about what college is like, how would it be to live in an environment that is very different from home, rather than liking any individual school (I'm talking about early visits now).</p>
<p>Good Luck, it is quite an adventure.</p>
<p>My daughter is applying ED right now.</p>
<p>First, perhaps the most crucial thing to remember is that you and your son should not wait for the high school to tell you what to do. The necessary group meetings with high school counselors tend to take place too late to be of much use to families who want to use the ED option. At my daughter's high school, for example, that meeting is scheduled for this evening, September 27. The high school's deadline for submitting requests for transcripts, guidance counselor recommendations, and teacher recommendations for colleges with November 1 ED deadlines is October 1 (since October 1 falls on a weekend this year, the de facto deadline is this Friday). People who find out about this tonight are going to have a heck of a time getting all their paperwork in within two days. Most won't even try.</p>
<p>At the high school my son attended, it was even worse. The college counseling meeting was held in October, more than a week after the high school's paperwork deadline for ED.</p>
<p>Second, do NOT assume that your son will be able to add additional colleges to his list after the ED decision arrives. This may or may not be possible depending on policies at your high school. </p>
<p>I have been told on these boards that at some high schools it is very definitely possible to do this and that guidance counselors will work sympathetically and skillfully with students to help them expand their choices if they get bad news in December. At other high schools, though, the high school's deadline for submitting transcript and guidance counselor recommendation requests is set so early that a student who gets bad news in December cannot add additional January-deadline colleges (which is most of the selective colleges) to his list at that time. At my daughter's school, for example, the deadline for submitting all transcript/recommendation requests for colleges with January deadlines is the day before Thanksgiving. Also, you may find that the teachers from whom your son solicits recommendations will set requirements of their own. Because my daughter is applying ED, she approached the two teachers from whom she wanted recommendations the first week in September. Both said yes, but both wanted her to give them all of the paperwork for all of her recommendations -- both ED and RD -- right away. Thus, her entire college list was locked in by the second week in September. (Speaking of recommendations, it would have been ideal for my daughter to ask for recommendations at the end of her junior year rather than waiting for senior year; she slipped up a bit here.)</p>
<p>Third, the SAT. It is possible to take the SAT on the first or even the second test date in the fall of senior year even if the student is applying ED. But it may be best for the student to avoid locking himself in to those dates. What if he gets sick? What if he needs to re-take a Subject Test instead? (Students cannot take the SAT and the Subject Tests on the same day.) What if the test date conflicts with an extracurricular activity? My daughter's plan was to take the SAT twice during her junior year -- she chose the January and May test dates -- and then consider taking it a third time in the fall of senior year if necessary. It proved not to be necessary; she was satisfied with her May scores.</p>
<p>Fourth, Subject Tests. My favorite topic for ranting. If you look around these boards, you will see lots of kids posting things like, "Oh my God, I just realized that Harvard requires three subject tests, not two like all the other schools I'm applying to, and I was planning to apply ED, and it's the fall of senior year already, and I don't know if I still have time, and how hard is the chemistry test anyhow?"</p>
<p>Why weren't these kids and their parents thinking about Subject Tests two years ago?</p>
<p>You and your son should be thinking about SAT Subject Tests right now. The two of you may want to visit the Web sites of some colleges that might interest him and see what their Subject Test requirements are. Some colleges just ask for any two Subject Tests in different areas. (Math and science are different; so are science and history. Math I and Math II or physics and chemistry are not different.) Some require a test in a specific subject (usually math). Some require different tests for people applying to different programs (often, math and a physical science for engineering; occasionally, a foreign language for liberal arts). A few require or recommend three tests (which is a lot, now that the Writing test no longer exists). </p>
<p>The best time to take a Subject Test is at the end (May or June) of the school year in which the applicant takes the course that prepares him for the test. This means that the tests should be taken either at the end of 10th grade or the end of 11th grade, depending on when the applicant completes the course. Note that 12th grade courses are useless from a Subject Test perspective. </p>
<p>A few basic principles (none of which is specific to ED -- this stuff applies to everybody): </p>
<p>1) The Math II Subject Test is best taken at the end of precalculus (or whatever the math course that immediately precedes calculus is called at your school). </p>
<p>2) Anybody who takes AP U.S. History in 10th or 11th grade should take the SAT U.S. History Subject Test at the end of the course; the curricula are very similar, and the Subject Test scores of kids who get 4s or 5s on the AP test tend to be quite high. </p>
<p>3) Anybody who may need or want to take an SAT Subject Test in a science should take this factor into account when planning 11th grade course choices. Often, a single year in a high school science course is not enough, unless the course is extraordinarily good, because other kids taking the test have had a lot more preparation. For example, the applicant who has merely taken high school biology is at a disadvantage when competing with those who have taken AP biology or other advanced biology courses in addition to basic high school biology. If your son will be taking a science SAT Subject Test, it might be a good idea for him to plan his schedule so that he is taking a rigorous course (maybe AP) in that science during the year when he will take the test. </p>
<p>4) Not all high school curricula are a good match for the expectations of the SAT Subject Tests. It's worth asking teachers about this. For example, at my daughter's school, the county-mandated physics curriculum omits some topics that are on the SAT Physics Subject Test. Kids who take the test have to self-study those topics or settle for mediocre scores.</p>
<p>Fifth, the AP tests. These are not affected at all by ED. Don't worry about them.</p>
<p>While I absolutely agree that it is in the student's best interest to line up standardized testing (particularly the SAT II's) early, I would like to respectfully disagree with the tenor of some of the advice that has been given, particularly hardknox's advice that " extracurricular participation and leadership roles should be embraced in these same first three years of HS."</p>
<p>Terrygreg's son is just starting out as a sophomore. Fall of her sophomore year my D had never competed in the sport she ended up being recruited for by 10 Div. I schools. She had no idea that she even had any interest in the academic extracurricular that she ended up winning a nation level award in. My point is that at this stage our kids are very much works in progress. They should just be starting to explore their interests and realize their potential. If we encourage them to lock up their extracurricular interest and leadership positions so early in their high school careers, I think we are cutting short this exploration and doing them a disservice. </p>
<p>The advice that is being given on this thread is extremely well-intentioned, but it is the tone that concerns me a bit. High school needs to be more about the journey and less about the destination.</p>
<p>If he is a guy who is motivated and fascinated by the college search all written previously on this thread will work. And it will probably still be hectic in its own way.</p>
<p>But if he is of the common variety of male that tends to postponement, thinking the following also can work: PSAT/PLAN at end of sophomore year, SAT I and IIS at end of jr. year; SAT again in Oct. of Sr. year, APs at end of course.</p>
<p>And this only worked because when he woke up to the process (summer before senior year, despite my ardent previous attempts), he found one true love and only visited one other school (we made him) to confirm his ED interest. And it was not an Ivy.</p>
<p>Bear in mind that PSAT is given only once in a year, in October.</p>
<p>Thank you all SO MUCH for all of your input!!!!
I have been reading and re-reading all of your posts. I am sure I will ask even more questions, now that I know what to ask :)
PS typo: my son is a sophomore now and fall of 08, not 09 is when he is planning on applying ED</p>
<p>One thing that I think is helpful is to look at a Common Application and get an idea of what sort of questions they'll be asking. Do you want a hole where it says volunteer activities? Or work experience? Or community service? There isn't a right or wrong answer - there are perfectly good reasons why a kid might not have time to do everything. I do think a kid should be encouraged to find one or two ECs (not necessarily in school) that they really enjoy and persue in depth.</p>
<p>One more question (maybe two)....
PSAT - my son took it last year as a freshman (his school said it was just for practice) he is taking it again as a sophomore next month (again his school said it will not count) and FINALLY as a junior next year he will take it AGAIN (for real) next October. What really does or does not count? Junior year (2007-2008) will he be taking both the PSAT and the SAT if he wants to apply ED? Should he just accept the scores he gets next month and just stop?</p>
<p>Where I live, only the Junior year PSAT counts for National Merit consideration -- the earlier rounds are just practice. PSAT is taken in Oct., then many Juniors will sign up for the SATs in Jan., Mar., May, or June (in some cases depending whether they have AP exams in May; May/June is a good time to schedule an SAT II Subject Test after just completing a class that relates to the subject of the SAT II exam). Some Juniors take the SATs in Dec. but that's discouraged around here. Then Senior year, many students decide to take the SATs again in Oct. or Nov., or may need to get another SAT II Subject test into the mix.</p>
<p>If he's applying ED, he may want to take the SAT I and some SAT IIs on two test dates in the spring of his Junior year, and have the option to take it again in Oct. of his Senior year. Remember to factor in that you cannot take the SAT I and SAT II on the same test day.</p>
<p>If he feels he could qualify for NMSF, then he should take the PSAT in junior year; that's the only one that counts (unless he plans on graduating early and signals that on his sophomore year PSAT).
As mootmom explained, after he takes the PSAT in October, he can take the SAT in January, March. of May. I would reserve June for taking the SATIIs. Most colleges require only 2 SATIIs (that is, of the colleges that require them at all) but a few require 3, so plan accordingly. Again, the best time to take a SATII is at the conclusion of a class in the subject.</p>
<p>Thank you, thank you all again for all of your input. My son and I sat down and came up with a "gameplan", we hope this time table is along the right lines.....</p>
<p>Sophomore year (this year) take the PSAT next month, for practice
take two AP exams in May -Environmental Science and World History
take one SAT subject test in June (maybe Math, since he would have just completed honors pre-calculus)</p>
<p>Junior year (next year) take PSAT in October, for real
take the SAT in January, take SAT again in March
take 4/5 AP exams in May for English, US History, Spanish, Latin - he doesn't remember if calculus is AP or honors)
take 2 more SAT subject tests - we don't know which ones, please advise...</p>
<p>This looks SO HECTIC, I am starting to worry......</p>
<p>The only reason it looks hectic is that you are assuming he will be retaking the SAT in March (optional) of junior year and that he will be sitting for 4/5 AP exams in May. Plus two more SATIIs. Much of the scenario depends on how well he does on the exams, and if SATIIs are required by the colleges to which he will want to apply.
If he wants to take a SATII besides math, he could go for US History and English. If he feels he did well on the language AP exams, he could take the SATII in one of the languages. I've read that scoring of the Spanish exam is very rigorous, probably because of the many native speakers. Latin might be easier to score high on. At Harvard, a score of 600+ in a SATII language exam or a 5 on the AP will exempt a student of the foreign language requirement.</p>
<p>Terrygreg, taking the math subject test this spring is a great idea. If your son has just finished precal, much of the material on the Math II test will be fresh in his mind. He might want to buy a test prep book and play around with some of the sample questions (maybe even a whole sample exam) just to get familiar with them. A few hours spent doing this during Spring Break will help him feel more comfortable with the test. (Make sure he takes Math II instead of Math I; Math II has more precal, which is good since that's the course he just completed. Besides, some colleges don't want Math I anymore because it's too similar to the SAT Math section.)</p>
<p>Your son can register for the Subject Test in the same place where he would register for the regular SAT, which is here: <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/about.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/about.html</a> He will need your credit card. </p>
<p>If your son does well in AP U.S. History, he should definitely take the SAT U.S. History subject test in May or June of his junior year. The subject test is almost identical to the multiple choice portion of the AP test. My daughter got a 790 with no extra studying beyond what she was already doing for the AP test (on which she got a 5). Many other kids have had similar experiences. This test is a gift from the gods. Enjoy.</p>
<p>Whether your son should take any other Subject Tests, in addition to math and U.S. history, depends on where he chooses to apply for college. He might need a third test if he's planning to apply to one of the few colleges that requires or recommends three tests (Harvard, Yale, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, and a few others). He might need a science test if he's applying to science or engineering programs. There is no environmental science test, so he would have to choose one of the others.</p>
<p>The SAT Spanish Subject Test is indeed difficult to score high on. The questions don't look particularly difficult, but the curve is not favorable.</p>
<p>TerryGreg,</p>
<p>Most colleges will require a math SAT-II. Depending on the school, some may want a science SAT-II as well. One of the schools my junior is interested in wants SAT-IIs in math, science and humanities.</p>
<p>The SAT-II Chem was the last thing on DS's mind after surviving a near-catastrophe with his Chem teacher freshman year...and I am sorry he didn't take it. He feels like he should redeem himself by taking it now. On the other hand, the lesson he learned from that experience has had a marked impact on his organizational skills ever since... so in the end, it was a good thing. :*) </p>
<p>He finished Bio last spring, but it's not his "thing" so he decided not to SAT-II it. He had physics freshman year and is taking two physics classes (related areas, but not directly on point for the SAT-II) this year, so this would be the logical one to take, but it will still require a fair bit of outside studying.</p>
<p>Marian offers you MUCH sage advice! Soph year is not to soon to think about the timeline -- nothing you or your son decide now is cast in stone, but if you wait until late in the game, your choices and alternative strategies diminish.</p>
<p>We visited several colleges this summer in connection with family vacation. DS had some surprising commentary to offer on the schools, and found some aspects of the schools meant a lot more to him than I ever imagined. For us, it has helped to clarify what he's looking for (large vs. small, research vs. applied, grad school vs. work, one major vs. another, LAC vs. specialized engineering, etc.). Kids change their minds -- but the thought process and discussions that have followed since we visited have helped shape the process.</p>
<p>Son took PSAT Fresh, Soph and Jr years.
If he scores high, college buy those lists and mail to target applicants.</p>
<p>Good to advise him to select his intended major on the form with this in mind- if a possible engineering applicant you want to attract schools with thoes programs.</p>
<p>terrygreg,
I suggest it looks hectic because you're worried about things you don't know yet. Relax...you've been offered alot of very valuable responses to help you and your son shape the direction of this journey. If you're son knows you're stressed then he will feed off it and the experience will suck. Pick and choose those events/ideas that will work for your plan. Start to make contact with the specific colleges to find out their requirements, gather suggestions or ideas regarding what needs your son has to work on. Also contact the admissions departments of these schools for the same. Many schools already put this info online and are very internet saavy. As you both learn more about these schools and majors and your plan takes shape, I hope you'll be pleasantly suprised as you watch your son grow and mature. gl</p>
<p>
[quote]
nothing you or your son decide now is cast in stone, but if you wait until late in the game, your choices and alternative strategies diminish.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That should be the main take-home point from this whole thread. Thank you, CountingDown.</p>