Early graduation from high school and applying to music school

College Majors Music Major
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I have child that is gifted both intellectually/academically as well as musically which is somewhat unusual, I’ve been told. She started her music studies at age 3 and is now doing college level music studies with a teacher at a well-known pre-college music program. She is 13 and is starting to thinking about music schools. Actually she’s been thinking about that for quite some time but I haven’t really explored that with her much to date as I believe childhood is a special time and children should be children as long as possible.

She is in advanced/gifted academic programs and does very well in those. She is not that interested in academics even though she does very well in all subjects. She does enjoy math and science. Her test scores are in the 99% consistently.

She is absolutely passionate about music and very talented. I am starting to think about having her graduate early (we homeschool) and with dual enrollment credits. Her age is certainly a consideration but we are starting to look at a plan that would have her done with high school around 15-16 and apply to music school at that age. She is very mature for her age, as homeschool kids often are.

I was hoping to find other parents here that have a similar child and are pursuing or have pursued a similar path for their child.

I’m not even 100% sure if the top music schools (she is looking at all the usual suspects) would accept an applicant that has graduated early? I know some prodigies have done that but she is not a prodigy.

If we were to do something like this, we would live in the same city as her music school wherever that ended up being. While she is mature, I am not sending my 16 year old kid to NYC or the equivalent on her own, lol.

Anyway, if any of this sounds familiar to you or if you have any wisdom to share on doing something like this, I’d love to hear from you and what you’re doing or how it all worked out.

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First, you might want to read the Double Degree Dilemma essay in the Read Me thread here in the music major forum. It is a good intro to ways to study music.

I think quite a few kids are talented academically and musically so she won’t be alone. I am not sure homeschoolers are more mature in all ways (I have homeschooled here and there). I guess I would ask, what is the rush? There may be a very good reason, just curious. Is it possible her interests and goals might change (mine did in the last year of high school).

Is she doing summer programs? Besides lessons is she participating in classes and/or ensembles at the conservatory prep?

I have a music kid and a dance kid. The dance kid was in a company with much older dancers and didn’t do the last year of high school. She did fine with college admissions. At the time it seemed right but if I had it to do over again, I would have done things differently. (Full disclosure!)

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Doesn’t Curtis accept students of all ages if their ability is there? Maybe that is something to discuss with her private teachers. A friend of my S21 finished home schooling at 16 to go to Juilliard. Not in touch with them so I don’t know how he is doing but he is still there.

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That’s my thought too. Why rush? You don’t get those years back.

Our son was musically and academically talented. He was playing master classes with world class musicians before he was 10.

After a master class with a Grammy winning artist, he asked him when he decided to go to conservatory. The musician proceeded to complement his playing and then gently tell him how brutal the industry was. Many of the giants didn’t have recording contracts. His final words were “life is more satisfying for a great hobbyist musician who is a brain surgeon than it is for a professional musician trying to be a hobbyist brain surgeon.”

She may think that is all she wants now, but things may change. I’d encourage some some time be spent with people in the industry before plunging headlong at any age, let alone hers.

Good luck. She sounds like an amazing girl.

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Have you considered the arts boarding schools?

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Who suggested that being both academically and musically gifted is unusual? It doesn’t take much looking to find surgeons who were also concerto winners competition who performed with the “Big 5” symphony orchestras during their high school (or younger) student days, students going from major conservatories to Med School or vice versa then succeeding in their (finally) chosen fields, double degree students in Ivy/major conservatory joint ventures. I could go on and on from my own personal experience. There are many incredibly gifted kids out there who work hard have the accomplishments to show for their efforts.

I actually have quite a bit of experience with early conservatory/”elite” music school admissions - Curtis, CIM, Indiana, some others. But I’m uncertain as to what advantage you think early admission will give her? Is she not getting enough attention or opportunity in her current pre-college program? I have known a number of families that have moved to a new area to allow their kids to study with particular teachers or to participate in pre-college programs far from their original homes. If you would relocate for a college experience, would you consider it for access to better pre-college training?

What is her instrument? There are differences in training, opportunities, and expectations.

I’m not sure what you mean by " now doing college level music studies ". Advanced repertoire?? College level theory? Ensemble (chamber, orchestra) performances of full symphonies or complete string quartets? When “mine” were coming through, it was quite common for middle schoolers, 11 – 13 to participate in national chamber music competitions playing the warhorses of string quartet literature. Similarly, the junior level youth orchestras (through 8th grade) were playing entire symphonies – Prokofiev as well as the “easier” Mozart and Beethoven. Solo repertoire is frequently the same as would be found on recitals by the top professionals. Kids playing at these advanced levels is simply not that unusual.

Since you state, “she is not a prodigy” - does her teacher think she could be a candidate for early admission? Speaking of her teacher, does the teacher regularly place students into the major conservatories and can teacher advise on the studios to target?

It sounds like your daughter works hard and is advanced for her age. That is wonderful, but doesn’t necessarily mean early admission to a major conservatory is the only or best route for her musical (and personal) development.

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A ton of engineers, including my son, are musically talented.

My better half, also an engineer, said that’s extremely common - science STEM kids and music.

So it doesn’t seem unusual at all.

Graduating at 15-16 just seems rushed - especially socially. In college they’d likely be and feel isolated.

And no one knows what they want at 13. Even if they had a long term passion as mine did but changed 4 times in his junior and senior year.

Ps - she may love music over academics but all of us need to learn, write, explain, communicate.

Musicians will either struggle and need back up channels or they’ll be successful and need those academics to round out / help manage their lives. Those who rely on others get robbed.

Wishing you luck as you progress through this decision.

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At least three different times I have walked into a music event, and unexpectedly seen an engineer who I knew from work get up on stage and play (three different engineers). I do think that there is an overlap between whatever is needed in the brain to do well at math/engineering and to do well at music.

One daughter over the summer when half way through high school went on a music tour of Europe. She was with a group that performed in a wide range of different locations, and traveled a lot in the process. She decided that music was a tough way to make a living and you get tired of playing the same songs over and over. Around about the same time she had written a couple of songs that friends and acquaintances wanted to hear over and over, until my daughter got tired of the songs. When she got back she started neglecting her music and focusing on academics. Right now she is half way through getting her DVM (which is of course a very different way to make a living).

To me this does not look like something to rush. It also does not look like and easy thing to figure out.

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I do want to say that some of the comments here are a little negative about the music path, and focus on music can be a wonderful thing. I know many who are making a living in music, including my own kid.

But that decision requires maturity. If a kid is immersed in music, going to conservatory prep, practicing for hours, homeschooled, and too young to make decisions that are truly autonomous, I think it helps to give things time.

One step in maturity is discovering what your internal motivators are. Right now she may have a lot of external motivators. Maybe it is clear she has both. But she is young.

I know young people making a living in music who got a BA or double degree and studied other subjects and got a broad education, and are glad they did. I know some who did the conservatory route and then didn’t even work in music. Young people who did a BM and then grad school in Medieval Studies or Arts Administration, and some who didn’t do a BM and then grad school in music. There are many paths and your daughter probably needs to consider them all!

I think the suggestion of a school like Walnut Hill was a good one. Have you considered that? Life isn’t just about music, obviously and a teen needs to develop in lots of ways. An arts high school, boarding or otherwise, would help with social and emotional growth alongside peers, as well as musical.

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Let me say flat out, that graduating high school early is not for all people. And it should not be based solely on being advanced academically or musically. I also don’t think this should be decided yet at age 13.

However, for some kids, this is the proper placement in many respects.

I have a daughter who entered K early. So, she was already one year ahead In school in terms of her age. We were not homeschoolers. In tenth grade, she came to us adamant about wanting to graduate early, after 11th grade (when she’d be 16), amounting to two years ahead than her age would normally progress in our school system. She laid out her reasoning to us (this was totally HER idea). She articulated reasons in the academic area (that alone would not be enough…yes, she was accelerated even in her current grade placement, but so was her older sister), socially (always had older friends and was a leader among older students/peers), emotional maturity, and then artistically she had achieved as far as she believed was possible in our community and state, having reached as high as she could go in her field for someone in high school. Her field was/is: musical theater (though she also plays instruments). Before we let her proceed with graduating early, I anonymously called the BFA in musical theater programs she was interested in to ask if they would take early graduates, and all said yes, as long as she had earned her HS diploma, which she could do by the end of 11th grade. She applied to only auditioned based programs and these were/are super competitive to get into and she was trying at 16.

She attended NYU/Tisch School of the Arts. She grew up in.a rural town of 1,700 and moved to NYC at 16 and is now 34 and has never left! She graduated her program at age 20 and has supported herself 100% since graduation day in the fields of music and theater (she has a multi-faceted career, heavy on the music end).

For her, this was the right placement. Socially, she was a leader in college, even among older classmates. Artistically, this was the right placement, and same with academically.

Again, not the right choice for all advanced kids. My other daughter was also advanced, but did not graduate early.

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Doesn’t seem that surprising - both music and engineering are, in their essence, math. And both come to life through creativity. I’d say engineering and music actually have quite a lot in common.

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No rush. She is just approaching the ‘ready’ stage and it’s becoming very apparent both in terms of where she is at in her music studies as well as her maturity level. I know they could change, but I would bet my bottom dollar they will not with this one :wink:

Summer programs, yep; classes/ensembles, yep; also recitals, juries, competitions, the works, lol.

Curious why you would have done things differently with your early admit kid?

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No rush. Just ready.

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It’s actually quite common for very high achievers in music to also be very intelligent, and high academic achievers. Aside from intelligence, achievement in performance music requires thousands of hours of practicing. For certain instruments which can be practiced for 8 hours a day (strings players), many of the highest achieving musicians wind up home schooling because they just cannot attend school and practice 8 hours a day. Ballet dancers have a similar experience, except that they wind up in ballet schools together, so at least they have that social interaction of being with the other dancers in training.

Many classical musician children find that they are most comfortable with others in the same boat - they love music camp, and music boarding school, because they meet their peers there. Perhaps you should look into Interlochen boarding music high school. It might be the right fit for her, musically and academically.

The reality is that most child musicians, even prodigies, don’t wind up becoming professional musicians. A surprising number wind up going into medicine. Some wind up in administrative support positions in the music world.

I don’t think that it necessarily is that homeschooled children are more mature - I think that they are more adult-like, since they don’t go to school with other children.

You need to have a frank discussion with her pre-college music teacher. The fact is that when it comes to extremely high achievement in music, there is no grade level, no college vs high school vs middle school music. There is the level and potential of the individual student. Certainly there are musicians at 13 who are playing at a more advanced level than that of 18 yr olds who are being accepted to conservatories or schools of music, but these are kids with prodigious music achievement, and you’ve said your daughter is not at that level. Ask the teacher for her frank recommendation. If she tells you that your daughter is progressing nicely, but is showing no signs of being ready to audition for high level conservatories in two years, believe her. Your daughter certainly could finish her homeschooling curriculum early, and start taking college classes at your local state college while continuing with the pre-college program.

Applying to enter college or a conservatory at 17 would not be unusual. Juilliard allows students who are 16 at time of matriculation. Curtis has no minimum age. Of course, everything would be dependent upon her audition - that’s where the teacher’s evaluation of her ability is so important, so that you can plan accordingly.

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Fwiw, homeschooled does not equal isolated. It does for some, but not in our case. Her decisions are 100% autonomous. She’s been telling me she wants to do music since she was 3. Autonomous, but fully supported by us :slight_smile:

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There is a difference between musically talented and having the heart, soul, passion and drive of a musician.

She’s doing high school level classes. There is no rush happening. Just readiness.

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Hey all, thanks for your comments. I appreciate all the perspectives. If you are the parent of a kid like mine - especially if you homeschool and especially if you went this route and are on the other side - would love to hear from you. Feel free to PM me. Thanks!

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I mentioned ‘college level’ for reference. Not going to list her rep here, lol. Already in discussions with the teacher. I posted here hoping to hear from other parents of kids like this.

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I really feel education should be approached on a ‘per child’ basis. What works for one is a disaster for the other. I hope in the future our education systems are revamped so that this is the norm, not the exception. In the future, uniqueness could become quite a hot commodity, given the AI pandora’s box that has just been opened…

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