East Coast/Mid Atlantic LAC's (CTCL) versus PNW. Insights on schools prior to touring appreciated!

College Search & Selection
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Hi @eandesmom ! I’m in NEPA and we vacation a lot in Erie so I can help a bit with questions. Erie is awesome (Presque Isle is amazing) but notsomuch in February. Lake effect snow is a real threat at all times. It’s hard to guess if you’ll have bad weather this far out. But if there’s any sign of it in the forecast, since you’re landing at 10:30 at night, I would hesitate to do the drive south. Especially because of snow and ice - black ice is not to be sneezed at. The airport in Erie doesn’t have a ton of options around it - maybe the Red Roof Inn. It is a tiny airport - are you sure rental car places are gonna be open that late? The Sheraton downtown is too far to go in the wrong direction - you’re right about heading to 90 for lodging options. If you’re gonna be late arriving, I’d again recommend staying in Erie. And yes, an SUV is good choice for renting. Sorry; can’t help on drive from Meadville to P’burgh.

Now, Allegheny College is having some problems, financially, which you may have discovered in your research? Anyway, that might be why they’re seeming eager. Here’s a couple of links:
https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-revises-Allegheny-College-PAs-outlook-to-negative-affirms-A3–PR_321392

And this thread’s page has some Allegheny commentary:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19547956#Comment_19547956

Ursinus - I know about where it is but have never been. I worked for many years in Allentown, which is about an hour away. Have you looked at Muhlenberg College? Great theater program, and while you say you’re not interested in adding to the tour, I thought I’d at least mention it.

Driving from Philly to Baltimore - best way is 95. There are tolls everywhere. You can’t avoid them if you want to get there in a reasonable amount of time.

Hope that’s of some help.

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@Gatormama

Yes, I was aware. This is a more current article.

https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-downgrades-Allegheny-College-PA-to-Baa1-and-assigns-Baa1–PR_903361189

As we come down to it, that may be a consideration, or it may not.

It let me book a car lol but yes, a valid question. I am very familiar with lake effect snow. I lived in Chicago for 10 years and covered states all around it so had my fair share of WI/MI/MN/OH/IN driving in it. BLEH. We get black ice here as well and it’s far worse than out there as here, it’s on asphalt versus concrete and that makes a huge difference. And the potholes…I do not miss those!

I may see if I can find a shuttle hotel where we pick the car up there in the morning. Thank you for making me feel like I’m not being overly paranoid though! I really appreciate that.

We did look at Muhlenberg, extensively. It looked lovely. Out of price range. PROFILE schools are not our friend unless very generous in merit and S17’s stats aren’t of the kind to have big dollars thrown at him at match schools. So like Middlebury it would be over our budget years 1, 3 and 4 and WAY over it year 2. Even at their max merit scholarship, it’s over the budget and that’s before COA increases over the 4 years

95 is what I was assuming we’d drive, good to know on the tolls.

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Overall, the route skirts the heaviest of traffic patterns and will probably take just about and hour and 45. Pittsburgh is a funny place, sort of a collection of small villages, so whether you come down 79 or 376, you’ll find traffic doing some version of the same, especially in the morning, because most people will be crossing the river. But totally straightforward with Google maps and Pittsburgh drivers are polite.

@Gatormama , Chatauqua?

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Yeah, I keep looking at Muhlenberg and wondering if our local network of contacts will magically make it affordable :slight_smile:
Thanks for the updated Allegheny link.
Which brings me to wondering how the 3000 or so non-top tier colleges and public flagships are gonna be in business five years from now. College is getting more and more unaffordable for more and more people.

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@gardenstategal – Chatauqua…? Sorry, I’m operating with a fuzzy cold head.

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@eandesmom We did not tour Ursinus and only drove by at dusk to check out the town and drive around campus to decide if we wanted to head back for a real tour the next morning. D nixed it. As for Goucher, we had a tour, info session, and interview set up. After the interview, which was held first, my D came out of it looking like a deer in headlights and asked if we could leave NOW. I made her at least go tell the people at the front desk that she would not be sticking around for the tour. I realize now that she had visited Beloit the week before that and, once she saw Beloit, never wavered from it being her top choice (from July all the way to the next April after all her decisions were in and she participated in admitted student visits at her top two). Believe me, it was a long way to travel from Los Angeles to Baltimore, but it was totally worth it to get that gut response. I mean, isn’t that what visits are for? To eliminate schools is a good thing since a student can only choose one.

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I recommend DRIVING from Allegheny to Ursinus. The main highways, especially PA Turnpike, are well plowed and salted in snow (unless the snowstorm is a surprise). The time for airport check-in, rental car, etc. would be just as much time as driving.

I’m an Ursinus alum. I don’t think it will have as much as the outdoor vibe as UVM. There is plenty of outdoor activities nearby, but the students don’t engage in them as a whole. The theater program at Ursinus is very good and very open to those who are majoring in a non-arts major.

Urinsus Main Street is a row of gorgeous houses for upper classmen. There is Greek life, but much is “local” versus the expensive National Greeks. Non-Greeks can attend most of the Greek events.

Please tell the Admissions Office that your son wishes to sit in on a class.

It has been a few years since I visited Goucher. Even though Goucher is closer to bigger urban area vs. Ursinus surburbia, it has also felt more isolated to me because of the long driveway into the campus. Goucher is more heavily female and has an “artsy” feel.

My HS 2018 and 2019 are looking at UVM and UPS respectively, so I will anxiously be awaiting your trip report.

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I tend to agree with @Longhaul on the drive. Less travel time in total but you know where you need to be and when.

Sorry, @Gatormama, thought you might be a Chautauqua vacationer!

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Ah! No, we actually camp near Erie in camping cabins, because we’re all about cheap vacations :slight_smile: – and Presque Isle is a phenomenal hidden gem (as are all PA state parks). We’ve driven around Lake Chatauqua, though, and it’s very pretty!

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I’m really not sure why all the discussion on the PA Turnpike. It looks more direct to take I-80 and then down 476 (which is, okay, the northeast extension of the Tpk). As far as winter weather, the Turnp[ike and I80 will be well treated. IF you can’t drive on them, then that means we have a major 12-18" snowstorm and no vehicle is getting thru.

From Philly to Ursinus you don’t use the turnpike, you use I76 the Schuylkill (aka Sure-Kill) expressway. Which is worse than the turnpike IMHO. Very congested at times and only 2 lanes with no shoulders etc. You’d take that to Rt 422 - just make sure your navigator has the route in front of him, so he can tell you what lanes to use. But it’s a straight shot, just a lot of lane switches at the confluence of 76, 276, 422 and 202.

Feel free to PM me too - I am in Collegeville a lot for work.

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We have been to both UVM and Allegheny. Major is Political Science. Very different schools, but both felt very friendly and accepting. Allegheny, maybe because it is so small, is very high touch. When I was working on setting up college tours, I was initially put off by the fact that you actually have to call and speak to a live human being to arrange an info session and tour. The tour was 1:1–there was actually another student from my D’s high school there the day we were there (it was during our April spring break), who also had her own personal tour guide. It just so happened that my D’s tour guide was a Political Science major (not sure if that was by chance or design–he seemed genuinely surprised and pleased when D said her major was going to be Political Science). The “info session” was an interview with the AO–he spent about a half hour 1:1 with my D, then invited me in to ask any questions I had. No formal presentation. While I was waiting on D, the Dean of Admissions came out and chatted with all the parents in the waiting area. It’s definitely a small school–amenities as compared with the larger schools we’ve seen (UVM and UMass Amherst) weren’t as extensive, but still very nice. There was a heavy focus on sustainability and energy efficiency. Dorms were varied–we saw one in an old historic building–high ceilings in the rooms, larger than what we typically have seen for doubles, but I got the impression that dorm style was highly variable. The feeling I got is that there was absolutely no way a kid was going to fall through the cracks there–lot of investment in ensuring that students succeed. For the right kid, that can be really reassuring and comforting–for others, it might feel a little claustrophobic.

UVM felt more like what I think of as “college”–much larger campus, lots of different activities going on. The info session we attended however was hands-down the absolute worst we’ve ever attended. It was excruciating–delivered by an AO who clearly wasn’t expecting to have to present that day, and the tortured metaphors and “theme” of the info session just made me squirm (I didn’t dare look at D for fear that we’d both roll our eyes right out of their sockets). That being said, once it was over and the tour began, all of that faded away. I did’t get so much of a crunchy vibe as a “we welcome all kinds” vibe. The kids looked happy, there were a couple of instances of spontaneous “Come to UVM–it’s awesome!” shouted at our tour as we made our way around campus (haven’t seen that anywhere else). Obviously lots of pride in LEED-certified buildings, lots of sustainability focus. There wasn’t a ton of diversity for a school its size–at least not what we saw on the day we were there. Lots of leveraging of the local environment for activities–skiing, snowboarding, hiking, camping. And as others have mentioned, Burlington is a fantastic college town.

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@klinska : Your description of your Allegheny visit sounds like my kid’s description of his Ursinus visit. Very high touch. Son of a friend had a very good experience at Ursinus, though they do seem to have an issue with yield – they were still soliciting applications in August.

Our UVM visit had a good info session; general impressions otherwise the same.

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Thanks all!

I realize I sound a bit like a baby with the driving but the eye thing is pretty serious and can be excruciatingly painful. I am really worried about a 5.5 hour drive and then more driving later that day and that’s even with decent weather. I wouldn’t do it at home on flat land I know well and definitely not in inclement weather. 2 hours has been generally my max at any one stretch, 3 in a pinch. Yes, it is the same amount of travel. Maybe more. But it’s less than half the time behind the wheel and that’s pretty huge to me. Both my H and my S are not a big fan of the drive idea as they see how it wipes me out. There will be plenty of driving over the course of the week without this long stretch.

But lots of valid points on both sides of the drive or not drive question!. Nothing is really final at this point but none of us are feeling good about the drive.

However chatting over it with S, he’d actually vastly prefer to spend the night in Pittsburgh (his idea) and fly out from there in the am and leave Allegheny after we are done for the day. Really not sure what that might look like in terms of where to stay to even see anything but there really is no reason we can’t do dinner there and that makes for an easier am. Not sure yet how late his day will go but very unlikely to be past 5 and quite likely significantly earlier. I think we will still have time to check out Meadville in some fashion.

So…any imput on that idea??? Obviously plenty of hotels near the airport but what might be good to do for dinner and in town?

Not at all sure yet on the Philly part though, other than we are going to Ursinus. We have a new option for that evening, I have a friend who lives on the way to Baltimore and is right off 95, would get us about 30 min closer than staying in Philly overnight. Plus it would be free and great to see her. It would mean not seeing Philly but I am not sure how much we can see with one night and not getting there until dinner. Not sure it’s worth the large detour to do it.

It does look like both the Comfort Inn and the Clarion have an airport shuttle so that may be the best option given how late we get in. Just take it back in the am to pick up the car.

@Gatormama yes, it would have been nice to consider Muhlenberg but oh well.

@1518mom yikes on the in the headlights. S17 had a horrid interview with Ithaca (local) and while it wasn’t quite that look, it didn’t help it move up on the list. I was impressed he didn’t take it off just based on that but it was definitely a factor that helped make it easier to cut when the money offer didn’t wow us.

@Longhaul I am not sure (nor do I think is he) how much of an outdoor vibe he wants or needs, which is the point of the tour. That by itself won’t seal the deal. We toured 3 schools over spring break junior year that were all outdoorsy but each in very different ways. None were applied to. It will be good for him to see a variety. However a school that is uber focused on sustainability and it’s visible on campus will get major brownie points. Given our schedule he won’t be able to do a class (they want you there early am for that) but they are going to try to do a faculty meeting and moved our tour to 1 and he will be able to do lunch with a student. It’s better than just the standard tour if nothing else.

I will likely not do a trip report on UPS although I suppose I could include his music audition as part of the trip report lol. We’ve been twice already and will likely be back 2 more times. Happy to answer any questions at all about it. My BIL and Cousin both went there as well.

@gardenstategal I think the travel times are likely equal but this breaks it up for my eyes which is important. Winter driving, night and bad weather kill me.

@klinska thank you for your input on both! I am looking forward to seeing them through S’s eyes. I’ve been extremely impressed by Allegheny on the overall communications throughout the entire process and they’ve been lovely working to really make the most of his day there.

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@eandesmom Complete empathy on the driving thing. No issue with my eyes, but I have a pretty firm limit on how much I can take on any given day. Do what works for YOU.

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You’ve also got my empathy on the driving thing, @eandesmom! As I get older, nighttime driving is harder–really hate it with rain/snow/sleet, even just for local short drives. When we visited Allegheny, it was a 9-hour drive back to MA (this was in mid-April though, and last year was a mild winter across the Northeast, so weather wasn’t an issue, and it was still really arduous).

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Oh if you have issues with the driving, then I totally understand. I am not a huge fan, but I do have acquaintances who think nothing of putting everyone in the car and heading 10 hours to NC for a vacation etc etc. Where in Baltimore is your friend? I know that area pretty well too

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Yes, I admit to being descended from road warrior stock! And bad eyes now too, so I get it anyway.

As for what to do in Pittsburgh. … your drive to the airport will naturally avoid downtown so you’ll have to drive into a more urban area to do something. At that hour, one possibility is going to station square, taking the incline up for the city view, and either eating in station square (grand concourse – featured in flash dance) or one of the spots there or at the top. It’s a little touristy but keeps you all on the same side of the river, let’s you see the point, etc. Could be fun. There’s plenty of parking in the area and you wouldn’t have to worry about getting somewhere on time.

I can think of other evening itineraries, but knowing you’re not wild about driving (and acknowledging that urban driving in a non grid city can be stressful), you might want to Google mount Washington incline and station square to see if that looks fun enough.

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Urban driving actually doesn’t bother me at all I do it a lot all the time, it’s long stretches of highway driving that are super stressful on the eyes.

I come from a long line of road warriors as well, many many long long road trips and have done it with my own family although not in the last seven years or so. Which is about when the eyes started to have issues. Now they are more medium road trips and my husband does most of the driving.

The incline actually looks good, that’s the second suggestion I’ve had for that so I think we’re going to actually look into that since that can happen in the evening. Touristy is perfectly OK for one night. I think the question then becomes whether we want to stay downtown or drive to the airport since it looks like it’s not a very far drive to the airport from downtown.

The good news is by changing it so we do an airport shuttle late night when we get in the Erie and then the basically one day drive into Pittsburgh so car for less than 24 hours, I will save quite a bit on car rental which almost negates the flight to Philly from Pittsburgh.

My friend is in Middletown DE, it would actually be good for S17 to meet her since if he does end up at Ursinus or Goucher she would definitely be a resource if he needed it. So we’ll see on that one, I figure it might be a trade off for staying downtown in Pittsburgh LOL.

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It’s all coming together! You’d be about a half hour from the airport if you stayed downtown (or near station square.) And the view coming through the fort Pitt tunnel is great!. As for where to stay, it all depends on you, I think. If you’re leaving early, there’s definitely an argument for staying at the airport and returning the car the night before . But if you’re in the city, you can also see what might be happening in town. There’s almost always something “major” at the Benedum or such but there is often music in littler places in the South Side (not too far and still, same side of river.) DS would never attend the latter with me, but your travel companion might be more willing.

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Downtown is on the other side the river from the incline though, yes? My traveling companion would be all over any music if minors were allowed lol.

I have a couple of restaurant recommendations but they are downtown. Would it be better to stay on the south side after doing the inline for morning airport access?

I am leaning toward the 8:30 flight. The 6am one has is up way earlier than I want and my traveling companion is not fun at that hour lol. With the 8:30 I figure we’d still make it to Ursinus by 11.