I’ve been admitted to Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Cal, and UCLA for economics. I’ve completely ruled out Dartmouth because I can’t stand freezing winters and I didn’t really “click” with the environment on campus. I’ve also ruled out UCLA because I’d honestly rather stay close to home and go to Berkeley. Vandy would be 14k/yr, while Cal would both be around 22k/yr.
How harsh is the grading for economics majors at Vanderbilt? I can’t seem to find any information online on what the average grade point average for undergrads majoring in econ is, but the average grade point average for Cal econ majors is 3.12. Would it be harder to maintain high grades at Cal or Vandy?
Also, how good is the recruiting from consulting firms/investment banks on campus? How would it compare to Haas?
Econ is a relatively easy major at Vandy. Some people find the intro courses hard, along with intermediate macro/micro, but they really aren’t that bad. I don’t think Vandy publishes the average GPA by major but I would guess that it is around a 3.3/3.4.
Haas is one of the best undergrad business schools in the country. Its recruitment would be better than Vandy’s, especially if you want to remain in California. Haas is a target school, whereas Vandy is a semi-target school. If you can’t get into Haas and have to major in economics at Cal than it is a different story.
@Vandy93 Isn’t Berkeley’s econ. major pretty solid though? It isn’t a Duke, HY, or Chicago, but still better than most elites.
@dasliph : If Vandy is buying you, I guess you should bite. Also, most privates are not going to publish departmental grade averages. That is more typical at some public schools (such as Georgia Tech and Berkeley). I would assume that Vanderbilt, if most classes grade like most other schools, then the mean will likely be B+“ish” (like 3.2-3.3). Economics is traditionally higher than most science majors, but is not nearly as high as most social science and humanities majors.
Anyway, I would consider the school you like and not the grading in an individual major as it can reflect lots of things. For example, if economics is functioning as more of a popular/default major, then yes, I would expect a place like Berkeley to have that average because it means that a wide range of students have talked themselves into thinking they should do it whether they like it or not. It may have nothing to do with how difficult the curves or exams are…there could always be selection biases that you cannot see or foresee. Did you sit in any intermediate or introductory classes at either school because the way you should judge is by gauging whether or not you can follow the material or like the instructors.
There isn’t grade deflation for Econ. McKinsey, Bain, BCG, Deloitte (especially Deloitte), Huron, Accenture, EY, KPMG etc recruit on campus. Vandy students have had internships and full time offers from Goldman, BAML, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, Citi etc. Yeah, we don’t have a business or finance major, but most people double major in Econ and HOD, and minor in managerial studies. Vandy may not be a target school like Wharton, Harvard etc, but we still have alumni working at top companies which come to campus and recruit many Vandy students.
@dasliph Out of the schools on your list Dartmouth is the biggest target for business recruiting, it is just a notch down from super-targets like Penn and Harvard. However since you have already ruled it out, Haas is the next best thing. Recruiting at Haas is definitely superior to Vandy.
@bernie12 Berkeley’s Econ major is very strong (its grad program is tied for 5th vs. 36 for Vandy). However, I think many there use it as a fallback option if they can’t get into Haas, which would probably affect recruitment.
I looked briefly at their Econ requirements. Cal requires 2 semesters of calc vs 1 at Vandy, along with a calc based stats course and econometrics, which are not required at Vandy. This might make it slightly harder than Vandy’s major, although Bernie made some good points regarding the difference in difficulty. Additionally, most students at Vandy who want to be competitive in the job market go beyond the minimum.
@Penn95 : The top companies appear partially biased by location and seemingly whether or not the school is known for a) a very elite undergraduate econ. program (as in not top ranked grad. programs but ones known for unusual quality at the UG level and we know who these are) or b)They’ll be more partial toward schools with highly ranked UG business programs. Sophie is likely right that they recruit at Vanderbilt, but any school ranked in the top 10 or so for UG business in many publications will likely perform better even if they aren’t a target or just outside the super targets merely because the schools are obviously crowded with those interested in business careers. I am just unsure if the OP even intends to pursue UG business programs in which case I don’t know if an extra 11k is worth paying for Berkeley. I love many of Berkeley’s UG programs, but I don’t know if I would love that particular one (econ) that much.
@Vandy93: I just came up with a scenario that shows the fallacy of choosing a school based on difficulty as judged by average GPA in department. If I were concerned about my performance or competitiveness, I would not go to Chicago over Berkeley (say they offered similar aid) even if it were revealed that the average GPA for an econ. major at Chicago was higher. Those who choose Chicago’s major are often very serious. And the courses are known to be unusually challenging for majors. Kind of much like I would not stroll into a science major at MIT if I found the grades were slightly lower at Vanderbilt or some school in Vandy’s tier of “difficulty”. MIT does science so differently that if I worry about the curve at all, I just would avoid like the plague (those who go there planning to be pre-med and a biology major and think they are taking an easier path…I pity and applaud them at the same time). Again, it isn’t about the actual grading at some places versus the level of theory presented by the instructor. I always talk about how these differences even exist among elites. Some elites are known for their rigor in particular departments and some in others and usually this qualification of “rigor” isn’t only described by grading patterns. Actual differences in expectations per instructor can be observed in many cases. Worrying about grading patterns assumes that you can handle the content and workload given by many instructors in the dept. in the first place. You compare some depts…it is night and day (either different levels of theory/math in some cases or a completely different approach to teaching or curriculum structure is dominant in some depts).
Bernie, when did financial aid become “buying” students? Students in the US have a crushing $1,200,000,000,000 in student loan debt and a default rate pushing 40%. Any aid is good aid be it need or merit based.
Dasliph, you have 2 great options, select the best fit. I don’t see a significant advantage of one school over the other in terms of career options down the road.
@bud123 : Why is that so offensive? All schools attempt to do it whether they can afford it or not. In this case Vandy bought them because they offered better aid than Berkeley. If WUSTL, NU, or one of those schools did it (offered the best aid package), I would have said the same thing. Even Emory is doing this now, with some “competititive financial aid” thing it rolled out (and before other schools revamped their aid packages, the Emory advantage program was the one successfully buying students). Most elite schools outside of certain Ivies (and even they’ve begun doing it) have been doing this for years with new aggressive merit and need-based aid packages, whether it is financially sustainable or not, is debatable, but most do it. They basically use it to buy the upper-middle class (economic diversity at some of these places isn’t as great as you think it would be especially when it comes to lower income folks). It has its weaknesses, but that is ultimately what is happening. Because of some of the disadvantages(like financial. Some schools like H are rich enough to be impervious to increases in fin. aid, but others, not so much), I just choose not to paint it in the most rosy light possible. It is what it is though. I cannot be convinced that this tier of schools is giving all this money because of institutional values.
It is simply because they want whoever they consider the “best” (criteria vary) to seriously consider their school even if they didn’t really before and it often works (like whose gonna pay full price for some Ivy/Ivy Plus, especially a lower one, when they get a good chunk of change from these other places? I guarantee you that unless the family is super-well off, they’ll vote in favor of the cheaper one as they should. And among schools in the same tier, the one with significantly lower aid can forget its chances of yielding someone unless their is some superlative programmatic offering or opportunity).
I’ve spoke with the admissions office at Haas last week, and they said that a lot of Econ majors end up in the same jobs as Haas students. So even if you don’t get into Haas, there are businesses that’ll still recruit you.
It’s about time the top U’s with multibillion dollar TAX FREE endowments get off their wallets and help students out. When you look at the top privates they have no pays and full pays. The upper middle class don’t receive enough aid and don’t have the disposable income to attend these U’s. The upper middle class kids end up at the state flagship honors programs. So, I’m all for offering more aid to these families. It’s not about buying students it’s about making their U’s affordable to ALL students.
@SnapApp I’m sure that’s true. I know that Haas is a target school for IB. Because of that it might be worthwhile to pay extra for Cal if you are confident you can get into Haas. I’m just not sure if there is an advantage in terms of recruitment for Cal Econ majors vs. Vandy Econ majors like there is for Haas vs. Vandy.
As other people of said Vandy grads do get jobs at top IB and consulting firms. However, to get a job at certain firms it takes more effort than it would if you attended a top target school.
@bud123 : As normal, much more nuance needed. That apparently often ends up being subsidized by taxpayers anyway. Also, I think you currently and I used to always overestimate how wealthy some of these colleges are. These financial programs are great on the surface and do help lots of people, but they aren’t financially sustainable at those outside of the super rich schools (don’t get me wrong, all top 20s are extremely rich relative to others). Doing it can apparently hurt the finances of the main undergraduate entity. So much money goes into recruiting the students that sometimes academic progress or changes can be adversely affected. Furthermore, the very low/low-income may de facto be excluded in effort to accommodate the more well-off students who maybe scored better on the SAT or something. So the financial aid policy makes for the appearance of attempting to make socioeconomic diversity, but it has limitations.
But regardless of what one thinks, this person should probably take Vanderbilt’s offer if it is cheaper. It isn’t because I like Vanderbilt more, but because paying 11k more for big Berkeley may not be worth it. Vanderbilt gives off a quasi “large school” vibe while also having intimate academics. Unless this person wants to be in an actual business program from the start, I don’t think they pay more to go to Berkeley and force themselves into HAAS as a default option to get some sort of edge. If the OP wants economics, they should do economics at the cheapest and best option possible. I think it is Vanderbilt. If they want more practical experience, they can couple it with other majors, minors, or coursework (like something in Peabody, or better, math/CS!)