<p>We didn’t make it to Middlebury and it did sound great. Can’t remember why we decided not to, probably just too many miles away.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing what you do, I never would have thought about that application for physics. Fascinating.</p>
<p>I will chim in here as I my S and I will be ventutring out into the unknown waters of college admissions this year. Whitman is VERY high on my S’s list but he hasn’t visited yet. From everything I have read, my also unpretentious, outdoorsy, bright, personable and just plain happy kid, will fit in great. He knows he wants a small student body with discussion based classes pesonal relations with professors, where he can major in ES and do pre-med requirements. I’m thinking that my S has a similar list to yours Bopambo… Bowdoin, Bates, Colby, Midd, Hamilton Colorado Collge, and a few more. We are visiting Maine/VT in Oct., as he is thinking of applying ED to Midd. He spent a semester in VT last Spring at a prestigious boarding school on a rural organic farm, and would LOVE be back in VT if possible. I on the other hand would LOVE him to stay on the West coast. It will be a LONG FALL</p>
<p>Hi 5boys, you have been a diligently doing your homework, so I know you’ve got a great list. </p>
<p>I wish the best of luck to you all, I know how stressful it is. Just remember the wise words of my son’s guidance counselor (who did very little guiding but got this part right): “The vast majority of teenagers love wherever they end up.” You’re all looking at great schools, and if by some quirk of fate your kids end up at Whitman, they’ll have a wonderful time and get a darn good education.</p>
<p>5boys, I’m guessing that’s The Mountain School that your son attended. Lucky him! My daughter was CRUSHED when she got waitlisted for that program–just about the most disappointed I’ve ever seen her. Seems like a really special place.</p>
<p>We just got back from a trip to Western Mass and Vermont and I was struck again by how lovely it is up there. We had a fantastic visit to Williams, and that has now vaulted to the upper echelon of my daughter’s fave list. Like Midd and Whitman, it seems like a wonderful place for an outdoorsy kid, nestled right in the mountains. I think Williams and Midd are going to be battling it out now for the top spot amongst the NE LACS for my daughter, as they both have the things she wants–strong sciences, strong theater and dance (Holy Moly the almost brand new theater and dance building at Williams is a stunner–this is why these places cost $55K/yr) and a beautiful setting, along with great professors and neat kids.</p>
<p>I feel a little sheepish going on about Williams in a Whitman thread, but I have to share that I had a notion that Williams was just a bit more uptight then some of the other LACS, and quite dominated by the jock crowd. Well, we were fortunate to be able to attend a theater performance last night and succeeded in corraling three students after the show to chat about Williams. Better ambassadors for the school you could not have imagined. They must have hung out with us for close to an hour, almost 'til midnight and long after the building had drained of all other humanity. They were all as friendly and articulate as could be, and all wildly enthusiastic about Williams, despite being non-athletic artsy types. I had an entirely revised impression of the place after that conversation.</p>
<p>So, two great lessons: visiting and forming one’s own impressions beats internet hearsay any day of the week, and there’s just a lot of terrific schools out there where kids are having great experiences (see Bopambo’s guidance counselor wisdom). I’m thrilled, because I figure, with how hard it is to get in to these places, the more or them my daughter would be delighted to attend, the better :)</p>
<p>Reading this thread reminds me of how much I liked Whitman! :)</p>
<p>rayrick, I’d like to chime in on a few questions you raised. Agree with the others that Whitman looks at more than test scores for determining merit aid. Whitman offered my son a combination of merit and need-based aid, which totalled almost half the cost of attendance - the best overall package he received out of eight peer schools. Son’s SAT was about 2100 in a single sitting - good, but not stellar - though his SAT IIs were much better: 800, 800, 770, and 730 (a language, a history, a hard science, and another language, respectively). I think Whitman’s looking for the whole package.</p>
<p>Like you, we were also concerned about being squarely middle class yet not qualifying for much need-based aid at top LACs. Turned out that there was a huge difference between the amount of need-based aid son received from the eight schools he was accepted to, getting between $15 to 20K from Brown, Carleton, and Grinnell, about $10K from Colorado College, and ZERO from Bowdoin and Middlebury. Don’t know why Bowdoin and Midd were so out of step with the others, but that was our experience. The lesson I learned was that it’s good to cast a wide net because the results of financial aid aren’t as easy to predict as we’re led to believe.</p>
<p>Agree that you really have to visit these schools, and do an overnight if possible, to get the best picture of what life is like there. My son attended accepted student days at Colorado College, Carleton, and Brown (also wanted to revisit Whitman, but we had to draw the line at three time zones 
), and ended up liking Carleton best by a long shot. (On the other hand, his younger brother isn’t even looking at Carleton, but that’s a sibbling thing…). Older son loved his first year at Carleton and can’t wait to get back. He describes it as “an unbelievable amount of work, and an unbelievable amount of fun.” You can’t go wrong with any of these places, though, and I agree with bopambo’s adviceto her son, that he should stop being so analytical and try to remember how he felt when he was on campus and with the students. When all else is equal, or nearly equal, going with the heart is a good thing. :)</p>
<p>Ah sunmachine, thanks for chiming in, you bring a wonderful perspective. I know how great Carleton must be, we have a friend who’s son just graduated from there and had an incredible experience. He’s now living in Chicago acting and writing plays (come to think of it , rayrick, theater must be thriving at Carleton also!) However, my son just couldn’t picture himself there. He’s very smart, but he’s also really physical and extremely social, so I think the academic intensity there turned (scared) him off. Thank heavens there are so many fine colleges to explore.</p>
<p>First, I want to say how much I’m enjoying this thread. Thanks all for your interesting and varied perspectives :)</p>
<p>Sunmachine, I’ve been reading your posts about Carleton for a while now with great interest. Thanks for providing another data point on the merit aid at Whitman. It’s looking pretty darned good for D, who got a 2260 on her first (and almost assuredly only) sitting for the SAT, and has subject scores of 800, 770 and 730 on math II, bio and spanish.</p>
<p>That’s also an admirable list of acceptances your son amassed! He sounds like quite the linguist–I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of anyone getting scores like that on TWO of the notoriously challenging language tests. Great info on the high variance in aid offers as well. </p>
<p>D and I have been fixated on Carleton for a while now as potentially the very best fit for her. Super strong sciences; laid back, fun-loving and quirky student body; stellar reputation for teaching (even amongst peer schools) and; apparently a very high percentage of students involved in performing arts (they’ve even got a musical theater student organization-yay!). Plus, it sounds like they’re cutting the ribbon on a brand new arts center this fall. Oh, and I’m an Ultimate frisbee fanatic (still playing in a league at my advanced age) and Carleton is a national powerhouse! (This is admittedly not as meaningful a draw for D). We’re visiting in about a month and D’s doing an overnight. We’re excited.</p>
<p>Sunmachine can correct if I’m wrong, but I’m not sure laidback is an adjective that really applies to Carleton. It’s by nature intense because of the trimester system. Quirky and unpretentious, yes, but we got the impression that kids worked really hard A LOT of the time.</p>
<p>Well, I guess laid back is one of those vague terms with a variety of interpretations. I suppose I was using it to mean not taking themselves too seriously, being cooperative rather than competitive, and not seeming too consumed by status or post-college professional aspirations. Heck, I’m not sure what I meant. But whatever it was, I didn’t consider it inconsistent with an environment where people are also studying very hard. But I’m definitely with you in that my daughter doesn’t want the workload to be so intense that college feels like a soul-sucking grind.</p>
<p>I’m interested to hear Sunmachine’s take on this.</p>
<p>My S did have Carleton on his first list but crossed it off because, 1) he too, like Bopambo’s S, thinks it would be TOO intense academically, as he is intellectual,but also likes to have time for his other million things he likes to do, and 2) he spent the summer working on trails with SCA in Minnesota and Canada and really didn’t like Minnesota that much. I was glad that he did cross some off, as he really needs to start trimming. IMHO, Midd is also rated #4 “schools where students study the most”, so he REALLY needs to visit and talk to students. He is going in a few weeks to Colorado College for an overnight, open house and interview. </p>
<p>rayrick…Yes, it was Mountain School, and he had the most AMAZING exeperience there. It was everything he thought it would be and more. VERY demanding academically but he also really liked working on the farm. He had some of the most unique, phenomenal teachers, most with Ivy degrees. He is still on FB constantly with all of his classmates. They develop such a close bonds. A lot of the TMS kids apply to the same colleges so he is hoping to reunite with at least 1. Midd is #1 matriculating school from TMS, as is Carleton, Dartmouth, Brown and Yale. It is a pretty impressive place, and the best thing it is great essay writing stuff. His big CA essay is on his experience there.</p>
<p>My S has high test scores but his GPA is not top, and with 2 transcripts, so he has a big list, as he really doesn’t know how colleges will look at him. I think the good thing is that, like rayrick said, he would be delighted to attend any of them:-))</p>
<p>Ah yes, 5boys, you just reminded me of why we didn’t drive all that way to Middlebury.</p>
<p>I’ve been sort of reflecting back on this whole thread and remembering that all our kids are made-up entirely differently from each other and come out of high school at varying stages of maturity. In high school, my son took the most rigorous class load offered, played varsity and club sports year round and was in student government all 4 years, including junior class president and then student body president. He went to Boys State and built a school in Nicaragua one summer, etc, etc. To tell the truth, he was a little worn out, he just didn’t want to put himself in an ultra high demand environment. He was accepted to 4 UCs (including Cal), Tufts, and Boston College Honors College, but realized that all of them would be constant competition. </p>
<p>I think he knew even as he was looking at undergrad that he would be going on to graduate school, so the road is long. He loves an intellectual challenge, but he also loves rugby, rock climbing and being involved in the student government. Bowdoin was wonderful because they saw that learning happens in every aspect of life, not just academics. Whitman is the very same way. Whitties are engaged in a million things along with their academics. Life is very full and challenging and fun, it’s a great place for him. Your kids all have very individual needs, just pay attention to what makes them excited and happy and everything will be fine.</p>
<p>Thanks, Pea. According to a US News list, Whitman has a roughly 75-percent acceptance rate for ED, and a 46-percent acceptance rate overall. It’s possible that students applying ED are generally more qualified than the average applicant, but that seems unlikely. It seems much more likely that Whitman strongly favors ED applicants. </p>
<p>My daughter is strongly considering applying early decision to Whitman, partly because she loves it, partly because she thinks she’ll have a better chance of getting in if she does. I also think it’s a terrific school – full of smart, fun, welcoming kids – and I’d be very happy if she made it her top choice. But we live far away, so will need to factor lots of cross-country travel into the overall cost of a four-year Whitman education. Merit aid would be a significant help.</p>
<p>I totally get the ‘worn out’ thing, and the hope that life might get a little less overwhelming in college. I think it springs, in part, from what is currently expected to gain access to most elite institutions, and what leads to documentaries like “Race to Nowhere”.</p>
<p>I’m sure there are kids who genuinely love being involved in something, be it homework, or community service, or sports, or what have you every waking second of day, including a hefty chunk of seconds that ought to be spent sleeping. But I think a lot feel enormous pressure to maintain this super-human output, and end up pretty burnt out before they even get to college.</p>
<p>I feel almost dirty when I catch myself wondering whether my wonderful daughter, who’s merely managed to get straight A’s in a very demanding curriculum while doing a fair bit of dance and theater on the side, has done enough to dazzle the admin committees at the most selective institutions of higher learning. I’m mean, heck, she hasn’t founded any non-profits! She holds no patents! She’s only president of one club! She doesn’t play the bag-pipes or the accordian! It’s madness–collective madness, and our kids are (or can be) the casualties. Thankfully, D is still quite sane and hasn’t developed any anxiety-disorder symptoms.</p>
<p>So yeah, the desire to not see one’s child ground down to a nub by a relentless workload in college after an exhausting high school career is eminently reasonable, in my view. Ascertaining where that’s more or less likely to happen is trickier. 5boys quoted Princeton Review’s “Students Study The Most” list and Middlebury’s lofty position on it. I believe the number (out of 100) that PR assign for ‘Academics’ is based on the same survey. The places at the top of my daughter’s list get the following ‘Academics’ ratings from PR:</p>
<p>Middlebury: 99
Williams: 99
Whitman: 98
Pomona: 97
Carleton: 95</p>
<p>As a point of interest, Bowdoin also gets a 99.</p>
<p>Is there any statistically meaningful difference in these numbers? Do the kids at Whitman actually study 3 survey units more than the kids at Carleton? Heck if I know! I guess that’s where the visits and the forming of one’s own subjective impressions comes in. Your son’s heart told him Whitman, and it sounds like it’s working out beautifully for him. I’m sure things will eventually work out fine for my daughter as well, but for now, the journey continues…</p>
<p>Rayrick and 5boys, it’ll be fun to hear your take on things as your journeys progress! Please give us updates.</p>
<p>JIB1958, from the US News stats you’ve quoted, it certainly looks like applying ED gives an applicant a boost. They must offer merit during the ED round and if they don’t offer enough to make attendance possible that grounds for withdrawing from the ED agreement. I’ve heard of cases where the financial aid wasn’t sufficient and after appeal the amount was increased. There are ways to make the cost of getting to Walla Walla less, it depends on where you’re coming from. Where do you live?</p>
<p>We live on the east coast, so I’m figuring the airfare would add an extra five to ten thousand dollars to the annual bill. Not the end of the world, but merit aid would help.</p>
<p>bopambo… I will keep you posted and probably will be pm’ing you for advice when and if I need it… you have always been very helpful and supportive, and I think our boys are very similar. Right now I am trying to work out a way for my son to visit Whit in November, but there is only so many flights we can afford and only so much school I will let him miss. </p>
<p>“Bowdoin was wonderful because they saw that learning happens in every aspect of life,not just academics”… Love this and it is SO true. This is actually the thesis of my S’s common app essay. This is exactly what he is looking for in a college. The funny thing is that my S already finished his Bowdoin Supplement because he was excited about the prompt on “The Common Good”… something he is passionate about. I think my S will really resonate with Bowdoin and Whitman, and other than his lower GPA, the type of kid they seek out. My S’s admission counselor thinks Whitman is the one, that they will love him. It’s just that the pull of Vermont on his heart strings is very strong… </p>
<p>JIB… even being on the same coast Whitman is not that easy to get to.</p>
<p>Kudos to your son, 5boys, for already tackling supplements. Would that my daughter were so well organized. And thanks for your support, Bopambo. I’ll let you know how things turn out. Sorry, also, if my last message was a bit shrill. Sometimes, I just need to chill.</p>
<p>and JIB, you said “We live on the east coast, so I’m figuring the airfare would add an extra five to ten thousand dollars to the annual bill.” Good lord, I hope it’s not that much! I was thinking more like $2K. One nice thing is that, even without merit money, I think Whitman is close to $5K cheaper than it’s east coast brethren.</p>
<p>@JIB1598 – You are right, I stand corrected. Whitman’s admission rate for early decision is 75% and the rate for regular decision is 46%. I’m so glad when someone corrects me on something like this so I will stop passing along the misinformation. Thanks.</p>
<p>I think you are right to be concerned about the possibility for merit aid if you go the early decision round. Looking at Whitman’s website they said that offers of need based financial aid would be unaffected by early decision but they didn’t say anything about offers for merit scholarships.</p>
<p>I imagined that my daughter would be flying at expensive times of the year (Thanksgiving, winter holidays, beginning and end of summer), but yes, I’m surely overestimating. When it comes to financing, I tend to think worst-case scenarios.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and insights. Very helpful.</p>