<p>It is also generally acknowledged that Cornell is the worst of the ivy leagues.</p>
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<p>Very true. Apply to Dartmouth ED and if you don’t get in, Cornell RD. Dartmouth has much more of the ‘college experience’ in such a tight-knit community. Cornell is huge and impersonal (relatively speaking, of course).</p>
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Oh, please. At the graduate level, Cornell falls behind only HYP. Its undergraduate programs are equally strong but suffer from a perceived lack of selectivity. </p>
<p>Even if Cornell is indeed the worst, what’s the shame in being the worst of some of the top universities in the world? What an absurd reason to reject a college!</p>
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Then apply to biology in CAS instead of in CALS. Problem solved. </p>
<p>Personally, I think you have no business applying ED at all, since you clearly have no distinct preference.</p>
<p>geez, it astonishing that dartmouth can even fill a class!</p>
<p>just to clarify – no one gives a **** about Cornell hotel administration.</p>
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<p>Yes, no one… except the the multi-trillion dollar hospitality industry.</p>
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I wouldn’t go with this description. I think both schools (both being at least mid-sized) being in remote college towns creates a relatively similar school focussed experience in two terrific college towns (compared to kids at a huge state school, or an no-campus innner city school, or a small LAC in a remote town which might create substantially different experiences)</p>
<p>The fact that Cornell’s claim to fame is “hotel administration” says more about the school than anything else possibly could. The only kids I know who go to Cornell are the hard-working/extremely stupid people.</p>
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<p>Give me a break; that’s is by no means Cornell’s only, or even main, claim to fame. With 25% of CAS and Engineering at Cornell having SATs above 1520 (which is well into the top 1% of the country), I would hardly call them “extremely stupid people.”</p>
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<p>In my experience, I get the impression the contract schools are much easier to be accepted into for in-state applicants than for out-of-state applicants.</p>
<p>^^gellino, if true, then folks who are OOS should take note that an xx % published admission rate is lower for them.</p>
<p>Here is how the individual Cornell colleges would compare to other colleges based approximately on SAT midpoint. </p>
<p>The Cornell specialty colleges are actually much more selective than the SATs would indicate becaue the admissions criteria are different. They are based on academics, experience, talent, awards, and so on.</p>
<p>The Cornell Math SATs are especially high (not shown here).</p>
<p>** = Cornell</p>
<p>California Institute of Technology 1470 1580
Harvey Mudd College 1430 1560
Harvard University 1400 1590
Yale University 1390 1580
Princeton University 1390 1580
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 1380 1560
Pomona College 1380 1530
Washington University in St Louis 1370 1530
*<em>Cornell Engineering 1360 1520
Dartmouth College 1350 1550
Swarthmore College 1360 1540
Stanford University 1340 1550
Columbia University in the City of New York 1330 1540
Duke University 1330 1540
*</em>Cornell - Arts & Sci and Engineering 1335 1525
Amherst College 1330 1530
Brown University 1330 1530
*<em>Cornell Arts and Sciences 1320 1510
University of Chicago 1320 1530
University of Pennsylvania 1330 1520
Williams College 1320 1520
Tufts University 1340 1490
Northwestern University 1320 1500
Rice University 1310 1510
University of Notre Dame 1300 1510
Claremont McKenna College 1300 1500
Carleton College 1310 1490
*</em>Cornell University 1290 1500
Georgetown University 1300 1490
Wellesley College 1300 1480
Reed College 1310 1470
Carnegie Mellon University 1290 1490
Haverford College 1290 1490
Vanderbilt University 1300 1480
Wesleyan University 1290 1480
Emory University 1300 1470
Bowdoin College 1300 1470
Johns Hopkins University 1280 1490
Washington and Lee University 1310 1460
Vassar College 1300 1450
Middlebury College 1270 1480
*<em>Cornell Industrial and Labor Relations 1290 1470
*</em>Cornell Human Ecology 1270 1460
University of Southern California 1270 1460
Scripps College 1280 1440
Colby College 1280 1440
*<em>Cornell Architecture & Art 1260 1460
Brandeis University 1260 1460
Grinnell College 1250 1460
Oberlin College 1250 1460
*</em>Cornell Agriculture 1230 1460
Davidson College 1270 1436
Barnard College 1260 1440
College of William and Mary 1250 1450
Macalester College 1250 1440
Colgate University 1250 1430
**Cornell Hotel 1250 1400
Boston College 1240 1430
New York University 1240 1430
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 1250 1420
Whitman College 1240 1430
Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus 1240 1420
Wheaton College 1240 1420
Kenyon College 1240 1420
University of California-Berkeley 1200 1450
Connecticut College 1230 1420
University of Rochester 1230 1420
Wake Forest University 1240 1410
New College of Florida 1230 1420
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 1220 1420
Bucknell University 1230 1400
Lehigh University 1280 1350</p>
<p>I rest my case.</p>
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<p>Wow, the #11 an #14 ranked universities in the country in a catfight. That’s what I call slicing the baloney pretty thin.</p>
<p>Frankly, this was a pretty stupid thread to begin with. By far the largest Ivy vs. a small Ivy that almost feels like an LAC…Right off there bat, there’s a major conflict of interests.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is more selective overall than Cornell. Does that speak towards the quality of either school? Absolutely not; each school is excellent in its own right. But if the OP’s question is which school he stand a better chance at being admitted to in the ED round, Cornell is the answer, the engineering department not included.</p>
<p>EDIT: can someone teach me the grammatical rules for withstanding and notwithstanding? I feel like I’m getting them mixed up.</p>
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Penn is the largest. Cornell is a close second, though.</p>
<p>^I’m talking strictly about undergrad.</p>
<p>">>…frankly this should be a no brainer.<< Wow, the #11 an #14 ranked universities in the country in a catfight. That’s what I call slicing the baloney pretty thin. "</p>
<p>Dartmouth usually ranked between 7 to 9 in the past decade. It has been demoted to 11th for the past two years due to the ousted president’s failing reign. You can expect Dart to climb up to tie with Columbia, once again, now that Dart’s got a new president.</p>
<p>^^perhaps you may be correct, john, but I doubt it. D dropped a couple of spots due to its lower PA score, i.e., academic prestige (or whatever term you prefer), which is based primarily on research. Unfortunately, some (most?) of D’s strongest departments do not have grad programs, not even a master’s. Thus, academic prestige is hard to build. While nice, the new prez cannot increase the pizzazz of a grad program where none exists.</p>
<p>I think Cornell students miss some major points. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Dartmouth is more than twice as rich per student (750,000 vs. 250,000), this means more money on grants, research, etc. In fact Dartmouth spends 3 times more per student than Cornell on advising according to the COHE. Also it means with few exceptions, only Professors teach at Dartmouth (which means better recs).</p></li>
<li><p>Dartmouth IS more tightknit. 75% of students show up to their 5 year reunion and the alumni giving rate is the second highest in the country (after Princeton). This means better access to jobs, and a stronger social network through life.</p></li>
<li><p>Dartmouth has a much higher placement rate into top grad schools (WSJ survey, HLS data, Wharton data, Yale Law data (all available online) etc).</p></li>
<li><p>Dartmouth is more selective than Cornell, even CAS. While Cornell’s acceptance rate has fallen to 19.1%, Dartmouth has hit 12.0%. Its SAT scores are higher across the board (and Dartmouth has engineers too so you have to look at combined scores).</p></li>
</ol>
<p>At the end of the day Dartmouth is a tightknit, undergrad focused college with some amazing undergraduate Cornell is a larger, less selective, research university. Personally I prefer the Dartmouth approach at the undergrad level.</p>
<p>The important point about selectivity is that Cornell Arts and Sciences SATs are only about 20 points different from Dartmouth. When you compare apples and apples Cornell and Dartmouth are about the same in selectivity. (Acceptance rates are irrelevant.)Furthermore, the specialty colleges at Cornell are the best in the world in their fields regardless of SATs.</p>
<p>The big difference is in size, research opportunities, and resources.</p>