<p>From Wikipedia:
Cornell produces more graduates that go on to become doctors than any other university in the USA. It also produces the largest number of graduates in the life sciences who continue for Ph.D. degrees,[9] and is ranked fourth in the world in producing the largest number of graduates who go on to pursue Ph.D.s at American institutions.</p>
<p>Among graduate engineering programs, Cornell was ranked 9th in the United States by U.S. News in 2008.[106] In 2006, Cornell was ranked 1st in the United States and 4th in the world in producing the most graduates who went on to receive engineering or natural science Ph.D.'s at American universities.[107] In its 2006,[108] 2007,[109] and 2008 [110] ranking of undergraduate engineering programs at universities in the United States, U.S. News placed Cornell 1st in engineering physics. In 1954, Conrad Hilton called the Cornell School of Hotel Administration “the greatest hotel school in the world.”[111]
According to the latest ranking of National Research Council in 1995, Cornell ranks sixth nationally in the number of graduate programs in the top ten in their fields.[112] Cornell had 19 ranked in the top 10 in terms of overall academic quality. Also National Research Council ranked the quality of faculties as 5th in Arts and Humanities, 6th in Mathematics and Physical Sciences, and 5th in Engineering.</p>
<p>7th, 9th, or 11th, it really doesn’t matter. The point it is that is Dartmouth is way up at the high end of the rankings and so is Cornell. It’s like the 3rd runner up and 5th runner up in the Miss America pagent getting in a fight over who is the prettiest. At that high level they both way ahead of average, and the difference between them is so small as to be almost totally a question of personal taste.</p>
<p>With that said, I would say that Dartmouth is marginally, but not significantly more difficult than Cornell to gain admission to. It’s not like it makes a difference when it comes to finding a job though, as whatever firms come to recruit at Dartmouth will most definitely also recruit at Cornell. </p>
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<p>I’m very sorry that you were rejected from Cornell but posting such patently stupid remarks on an anonymous forum will not help you cope with your rejection.</p>
<p>Cornell, while slightly easier to gain admission to, is by no means a slouch school; it’s just different. Cornell and Dartmouth are probably the two most dissimilar Ivies.</p>
<p>Oh please! And I went to Penn which is also easier to get into unless you’re applying to Wharton. I also have a son at MIT which is harder than all 3 to get into. Your point?</p>
<p>My point is I have watched my kids and their friends apply from three top NYC schools over the last several years. Their classmates accepted at Cornell, in general, had considerably lower stats than those accepted at Dartmouth. Cornell would have been a safety for my son based on his high school’s scattergrams and Dartmouth was iffy.</p>
<p>Just ones person’s anecdotal experience, but the OP has posted his stats and my belief is he would not get into Dartmouth ED so may as well try Cornell.</p>
<p>I think hmom offers great advice - ED is a one-shot chance; you want to use it wisely. If you prefer Dartmouth to Cornell and like your chances, by all means go for it. If you feel you’d be equally happy at Cornell’s ag school, that’s certainly worth using your ED application for.</p>
<p>You mentioned you will have an opportunity to visit both schools. That is fantastic. Dartmouth and Cornell are both schools that many people instantly love (or hate) the moment they first step foot onto campus. Perhaps that will be the case when you visit both campuses.</p>
<p>Thanks to all those who gave helpful insight.</p>
<p>To IBclass06, “Personally, I think you have no business applying ED at all, since you clearly have no distinct preference.”</p>
<p>Could you please clarify your comment? My college searching/preferences have been shifting rather drastically, but at the moment, I’m very interested in both. I understand that I still have a lot more research to do before I make a decision, but this thread was meant as a researching tool. Just from this thread alone, I do realize there’s much more I need to figure out before I make up my mind. </p>
<p>To monstor344, “Frankly, this was a pretty stupid thread to begin with. By far the largest Ivy vs. a small Ivy that almost feels like an LAC…Right off there bat, there’s a major conflict of interests.”</p>
<p>Both Cornell and Dartmouth, from what I’ve gathered so far, have aspects that appeal to me. I’m fine with both a big research university feel as well as an intimate, LAC school. They both have their merits. I realize some of my questions may seem inane to some, but I’m still in the process of figuring out what I want from a college, and I’m still oblivious to some very obvious things.</p>
<p>Of course, this is a joke, but sit back and think for a moment–would this long-running Office joke be as funny if it switched Dartmouth for Cornell? In all seriousness, I don’t think so.</p>
<p>“Cornell would have been a safety for my son based on his high school’s scattergrams and Dartmouth was iffy.”</p>
<p>Our friend is using those naviance scattergrams provided in her tony suburb, I asked and she told me that they do not distinguish between which college of Cornell the applicant applied to.
I warned her not to get too excited by such results, since the various colleges vary materially in selectivity.</p>
<p>collegehelp has posted the reported statistics by college, which encompass a broader population beyond the experience of one high school in any event.</p>
<p>Applicants seeking guidance based on their school’s prior experience would be well advised to try to get data for the partiicular college there that they are actually applying to. </p>
<p>It gets yet more complicated, since I believe at least some of the contract colleges require a major to be indicated, and entry into some of these programs (ie AEM) is reportedly significantly more difficult.</p>
I meant no disrespect, so I apologize if that came off a bit snippy.</p>
<p>ED is meant for people who absolutely love a school and couldn’t see themselves anywhere else. One should fall in love with a school and then decide to apply ED. Deciding to apply ED somewhere and then researching schools on one’s list seems, to my mind, somewhat backwards. You may well fall in love with Dartmouth or Cornell when you visit – but until then, it may be best to hold off on ED thoughts.</p>
<p>^honestly though, lets imagine you get into both schools. You are still going to be conflicted. Unless you are going to visit the schools again, you are going to be no better at deciding in the future than you are now (assuming you have not been lazy and have done all online research). Might as well apply ED now and increase your chances at one of them instead of having a low chance at both and still not knowing which one you rather go to. If you love both schools, just choose now and do ED…you are going to have to decide eventually anyway, might as well do it now and benefit.</p>
<p>Stringa, note that I never said not to apply ED. I merely said the OP should wait until he visits both universities and hold off on deciding (and asking for input) until then. On paper, for example, Brown was a perfect fit for me. In person, I absolutely hated it.</p>
<p>Incidentally, the number of people who are being encouraged to “do it now and benefit” are precisely the same people who are applying ED in increasing numbers and rapidly driving down the ED acceptance rates. Dartmouth’s ED admit rate has gone down 10% in the last 4 years!</p>
<p>Thank you for the clarification, IBclass06. I completely agree with you now that I don’t know nearly enough about either school to consider applying early decision. However, I’m trying to gather up as much information as I possibly can even before I visit, hence the reason for this thread. I realize now just how much my mind has been rapidly changing the past month alone, and that I shouldn’t sound so sure of something I don’t know nearly enough about. So again, thanks to everyone who positively contributed to this conversation. Your information was very helpful.</p>
<p>@ bigP, EXACTLY. Sure, it’s a joke, but think about it for a minute. Why Cornell? Why not Brown or Dartmouth? Because Cornell is widely regarded in the general population as the dumbest Ivy. The worst of the best, if you will. Therefore, the writers of The Office think it’s really funny to make the biggest a-hole on the show (Andy) a Cornell grad, and to have no one else on the show care lol</p>
<p>Here is how the individual colleges at Cornell compare to other schools based on MATH SAT. Again, keep in mind that the Cornell Hotel, Agriculture, Industrial and Labor Relations, and Architecture schools are the best in the world in those fields despite having lower SATs than A&S and Engineering. Although the SATs for those schools may be misleading, I think they are interesting. Facts are our friends.</p>
<p>I like the math SAT as an index of selectivity because the more international students the more the CR is depressed.</p>
<p>SAT math 25th, SAT math 75th, school</p>
<p>770 800 California Institute of Technology
740 800 Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering
740 800 Harvey Mudd College
720 800 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
720 790 ** Cornell Engineering
700 790 Princeton University
700 790 Yale University
700 780 Harvard University
700 780 Washington University in St Louis
690 780 Pomona College
680 790 Duke University
680 780 Stanford University
680 780 University of Pennsylvania
680 770 Northwestern University
680 760 Vanderbilt University
670 780 Brown University
670 780 Carnegie Mellon University
670 780 Columbia University in the City of New York
670 780 Dartmouth College
670 780 Rice University
670 770 ** Cornell Arts & Sciences
670 770 Cornell University
670 760 Swarthmore College
670 760 University of Notre Dame
670 750 Tufts University
650 760 ** Cornell Architecture and Art
660 770 Johns Hopkins University
660 760 Amherst College
660 760 Williams College
660 740 ** Cornell Industrial and Labor Relations
660 740 Emory University
660 740 Washington and Lee University
650 760 University of Chicago
650 750 Bowdoin College
650 750 Claremont McKenna College
650 750 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
650 750 University of Southern California
650 740 Brandeis University
650 740 Carleton College
650 740 Haverford College
650 740 Middlebury College
650 740 Wesleyan University
650 730 Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus
650 730 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
650 720 ** Cornell Hotel Administration
650 720 Hamilton College
650 700 Colorado School of Mines
640 780 Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art
640 740 ** Cornell Human Ecology
640 740 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
630 740 ** Cornell Agriculture
640 730 Boston College
640 730 Colgate University
640 728 Davidson College
640 720 Lehigh University
640 710 Colby College
640 710 Vassar College
630 730 Georgetown University
630 725 Wellesley College
630 720 New York University
630 720 University of Rochester
630 710 Bucknell University
630 710 Macalester College
630 710 Reed College
630 710 Wake Forest University
630 700 Franklin and Marshall College
630 700 Tulane University of Louisiana
630 650 Ohio Northern University
620 750 University of California-Berkeley
620 730 University of Virginia-Main Campus
620 720 Case Western Reserve University</p>
<p>Really? It’s helpful to post these sorts of statements in a tone that suggests it’s just your opinion which this surely is as it’s not fact. </p>
<p>The top college counselors out there will tell you ED is something to be employed as a strategy to up a candidates chances. In this insane time in college admissions many take a sober look at the landscape and pursue a strategy rather than the childish notion that there’s only one college for them.</p>
<p>I would have to concur with monydad as I don’t see how a 20 point difference in SAT avg is the difference between iffy and safety school. I wouldn’t view CAS and Engineering at Cornell as a safety for anyone.</p>
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<p>As much as I generally dislike hmom5’s arrogance and condescention, I would definitely agree with her remarks regarding applying ED. I was reading a book of professors studying admissions from the mid-'90s that I would have to imagine is still relevant today. It showed the avg, unhooked candidate to Dartmouth in the top 2% of class, 1400+ SAT (~1480 after re-centering) had a 57% acceptance rate in the ED round vs a 26% acceptance rate in the RD round (at a time when the overall acceptance rate at Dartmouth was ~ 22%).</p>
<p>No offense…but lets play “Collegehelp” Scan the world for ONE stat (25% math score??? Really???) where Cornell (engineering mind you) is ranked high and then broadcast it to the world. Note that Dartmouth, Brown, and Columbia still beat Cornell in spite of Cornell being more science and engineering focused. And what about verbal SAT scores? Also you can;t just take a select dept from one school and compare it to the whole school at other schools. Why not take “Brown engineering” or for fun, the Harvard “math dept”. Seems crazy to me.</p>