<p>That’s right wjb. Just attack when you disagree. Very mature. Besides, it doesn’t address my point at all, not to mention that I was talking about your comment that the “pain was just so great”. You added the other point as an edit while I was typing my response. Doesn’t matter. My point is the system is ridiculous when a deferral would cause a student to give up the advantage they would gain by applying ED II to another school. It is putting the student and their parents in the unenviable position of having to guess on the unknowable and therefore give up some of their options. The process becomes a bit of a joke at that point, with the schools holding all the power with their unreasonable conditions.</p>
<p>People that hold up the ED agreement as some sacred, binding contract are, in my opinion, acquiescing far too easily to the colleges. The student has one shot, essentially, at a process that will make a huge difference in their lives. For colleges to manipulate the process to the point where the student has to give up a potential advantage for admittance to one school entirely while hoping another school gives them a positive answer is simply absurd.</p>
<p>Fallenchemist: I have no interest in attacking. Not my posting style. Just defending. You launched the first ad hominem by labelling my opinion as “ridiculous.” </p>
<p>You may not like the way the ED system operates. That is a reasonable position, one held by many. And you may also think that “the system is ridiculous when a deferral would cause a student to give up the advantage they would gain by applying ED II to another school.” But bad system or not, you have no way of knowing how a particular student may respond to an ED I rejection or deferral. I still maintain it may make some kids gun shy.</p>
<p>Is one really under an obligation to the ED school until such time as one is informed of admittance? The schools who insist on no other applications clearly state that as a condition of application do they not? Applying ED and EA is allowed in most cases. Once accepted, one needs to withdraw all other applications. As long as the ED II notification date is well after the ED I date, and withdrawal of the application is possible prior to the official decision, I see no problem. </p>
<p>In regards to ED II schools, what is the real purpose of ED II? Isn’t it to pick up students who are rejected ED I for whom the ED II school now becomes their first choice given the boost in likely admission for applying ED? I think most schools know that the ED II students likely, but not always, applied ED I elsewhere. </p>
<p>As for the ED I school having the obligation of providing full FA information at the time of acceptance, I can understand this. However, one cannot therefore expect ED schools to admit “need blind”. If the FA available is unlikely to meet the need of an otherwise qualified student, it should enter into the admissions decision during ED if the ED offer can be turned down based upon competing FA packages.</p>
<p>Not ad hominem. Look up the definition. And that was a comment on your statement about
“kids nursing wounds”, not you in general, as yours was on me. For someone that has no interest in attacking you did a good job.</p>
<p>Of course I have no way of knowing how a particular student would respond to lots of things. I never claimed I did. I only know that none of the hundreds of students I have worked with “… got rejected ED I and felt the pain. The kid decides to nurse wounds…”. IMHO that is ridiculously melodramatic, but maybe I just haven’t worked with kids like that. Lucky me.</p>
<p>Broetchen,
Being deferred at an EDI generally releases a student from being bound to attend that school. It is something I’d double check with the EDI school, but in looking at ED policies, that is generally the case.</p>
<p>We were considering an ED II here, but would not have sent it until after hearing up, down or deferred from EAs. S2’s GC told us to come see her after EA decisions were released if we wanted to do ED II. The ED language on CA is pretty convincing to me that one can’t throw down the ED II marker until one is rejected/deferred from EDI.</p>
<p>Idad, we would have considered ED II if S2 had come up empty-handed from EA, in the hope that he could get an acceptance from one of his top choices. We were never looking at playing in the EDI round.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine there is any “generally” to this. If an ED school deferrs I would certainly think that releases the student from any obligation to that school. Really if you think about it ED should be accept or deny and none of this deferral business…what the heck is that all about…it’s like a do-over or a Mulligan.</p>
<p>idad - ED is in force once it’s signed, similar to SCEA. With both of them you could only have one ED or SCEA in place. SCEA pretty much precludes you from applying to any ED or EA, whereas with ED you could apply to EA, but no ED. Georgetown’s EA does not applicants to apply ED.</p>
<p>^^^fallenchemist: what then, I’m just curious, is your take on the new SCEA policy at your beloved Tulane? what gives there? I have expressed my distaste for SCEA policies elsewhere on CC (no advantage to anybody imo)…
what’s your opinion given the above post?</p>
<p>edit: and not to convolute the argument above, but I know quite a few “late bloomer” students who applied EDII to schools to wait for 1st semester senior year grades and additional standardized tests…i even know a couple who couldn’t psychologically pull the trigger for EDI but were ready for EDII; for this reason, I HATE the fact that everyone assumes that an EDII candidate was rejected from their EDI school…just my two cents</p>
<p>Yeah, if you’re deferred ED your “contract” to attend if admitted is void. That’s true everywhere. Schools also spell out very clearly: if you’re accepted ED and receive the financial aid necessary to attend, then at the point you send in your deposit and verification of enrollment, all other apps are to be withdrawn. So it isn’t true that the day you receive an acceptance notice that you’re forever committed by Holy Covenant. It’s when you see your aid award (if you’re a FA recipient) and it is sufficient, and then you sign the enrollment verification and send in your deposit. The EDI deposit deadlines can certainly be (and often are) after the EDII app deadlines.</p>
<p>This whole conversation is a bunch of opinions with no real experience to back it up. If a person really wants to know how this all will work out at certain colleges, just call them and ask. No one here is the mouthpiece of TRVTH.</p>
<p>Some people are however more logical thinkers, others are Holy Writ devotees… but it is all just blah blah blah until you ask the schools. And it doesn’t mean they are the source of TRVTH either, but at least you’ll know how they will treat the applications and that’s the only thing that matters in practical reality.</p>
<p>The ED1 deferral is a tough one. If the ED1 school is your dream school, and you still have somewhat of a shot with the deferral, makes the ED2 a tough call, because if accepted there you HAVE to go, even if school 1 comes through. My understanding is that a number of schools defer in the ED round, so it is a reality to have to factor in to the strategy.</p>
<p>Rodney: Good point about other possible reasons, aside from ED I rejection, for applying ED II. Re kids who wait for first semester grades to be recorded on their transcripts, do ED II schools actually consider first semester grades in making their decisions?</p>
<p>Definitely true for many kids, Broetchen. My own kid applied ED to his 1st choice school. (They do not have an EDII.) He was considering an EDII app to another top choice, but wondered if deferred by the 1st choice school should he give up on a chance of better results in RD.</p>
<p>It didn’t come to that since he did get in ED to his 1st choice, but there is a set of choices that can follow from an ED deferral.</p>
<p>I agree with 'rentof2 that calling and asking rather than speculating is a good idea. But I would also note that the colleges themselves do an odd little dance around ED. Several we have spoken to adamantly claim that there is NO admissions advantage to applying ED and that the ONLY advantage is “knowing early”. Penn does say that legacy status will be “considered” in the ED round. I know that some will point out that the most of the ED applicants are hooked and that explains the higher admit rate, but I think it is clear that it goes beyond that, and it comes off as a little disingenous to claim that there is NO advantage, save the timeline.</p>
<p>LOL. Yeah, we had a number of conversations with different colleges about ED. They are often quite vague about the benefits of ED… not quite saying there are none, but always saying it isn’t an automatic advantage. We also had the piece of needing substantial aid, so we had lots of questions about that.</p>
<p>“ED II schools actually consider first semester grades in making their decisions?”…from what we heard two years ago, absolutely “yes” was the answer…</p>
<p>Hi rodney. I don’t like it either, but mostly because it makes little sense. I mean, if a student really wanted to go somewhere else that has ED, they wouldn’t apply SCEA and Tulane does have an EA option. I suppose in the sense that it isn’t binding it is somewhat less distasteful, and I certainly understand why the admissions people do it, just like I understand why ED schools do what they do. They are trying to see how strong the interest of the student is, as you know (which is why when schools say it doesn’t enhance a student’s chances I laugh). But I think it needlessly complicates an already tension filled process. I understand what oldfort is saying about SCEA asking a student not to apply anywhere else EA or ED, but since it is non-binding it is totally an honor system and has no real teeth in that regard. But then it puts students in an awkward position, just like the other things that were discussed earlier. If I knew Tulane were absolutely my #1 choice, I would certainly apply SCEA but I wouldn’t hold back from applying EA to other schools. Again, who is harmed? I am just protecting my options in case Tulane says no.</p>
<p>Of course all ED II kids are not ED I rejects. I know one ED II who did not apply elsewhere ED quite well. But I think the colleges assume there are quite a few high quality applicants they can pick-up who are hopeful of an ED advantage.</p>
<p>Responding to ‘who is harmed’: At the very least, the other students who abide by the intent of SCEA and follow the rules by not applying EA elsewhere are harmed, IMO. </p>
<p>Responding to ‘has no real teeth’: Maybe, but the fear of having a favorable admission decision rescinded for not following the intent of the SCEA process, should the school discover your duplicity, would be enough for most, I would think.</p>