<p>First, the RD apps are paying a big price for Princeton gaming the USN&WR ranking. Half the places are gone!</p>
<p>Second, the big losers are the Princeton Class of 09, who may feel lucky to get in (why not?), but who will not have the benefit of sharing their academic life with top students who dind't apply ED to Princeton because they wanted to take a shot at H, Y or Stan.</p>
<p>Thrird: I agree with the post that a 1460 median looks like that of a second tier school. Contrary to a post that suggests otherwise, my take is that athletes and legacies can explain some, but not all of the low SAT median.</p>
<p>Fourth: It's time for Princeton to take the high road and go with EA.</p>
<p>ED benefits the applicants more--higher chance. That's why I did Princeton and not Yale actually...but meh. </p>
<p>I think they will accept a lot of higher-stat people RD to boost their averages and stuff.</p>
<p>RE: Point 2, there are more than enough highly qualified, brilliant, top students to go around at all these great schools. People who apply RD to H, Y, or S are likely to apply RD to P as well, and you don't know, maybe P's the only one to accept them. OR give generous finaid grants which the other schools lack. Either way, P is just as attractive in the RD round when acceptees have to decide between the top schools.</p>
<p>Personally, I think ED is a much better option all around. It's supposed to be for your FIRST CHOICE school, not just to get letters in December. I don't get people who, for instance, got in EA to Yale yet are still applying places now.</p>
<p>The good thing about EA is of course the financial factor. People are worried about binding ED because they might not get as much money as they need. I hate when I hear about people who appled EA just for the heck of it though.</p>
<p>Yalebound seems to suffer from "Princeton envy". The ED program employed by Princeton works well for both Princeton and those applicants who are convinced it is their first choice. For those really wanting Princeton it gives them a more realistic chance of getting in - better that the 5-10% chance RD offers. It also gives Princeton a solid base to work off of. The formula Princeton uses has not changed. In the end history will probably repeat itself and Princeton, after its RD acceptances, will end up with a class whose median SAT is below only that of CalTech and MIT, roughly 1495. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that Princeton's future looks even brighter/stronger once it increases its class size. At that point the lower athletic recruit numbers will be diluted even further. Even as Yale increases size, it will not have the ability to match Princton's rising scores because it is starting with a larger pool (class size). So the gap between the 2 will grow further. Unfortunately, Princeton threads will feel more insecurity.</p>
<p>I definitely agree, allie. Things will be different from what they have been when Princeton starts increasing its class size. How? That remains to be seen.</p>
<p>I certainly don't feel like I'll be "suffering" because I got in ED. The fact remains that if you go to Princeton, you're studying with some of the brightest students in America. You can't beat that. Princeton is in no way inferior to any other school out there. So some of the people missed a couple of questions more than others on the SAT. Who cares? What matters is what you do once you get to school and afterwards, and Princeton students have proven time and time again that they are more than able to step up to the plate and compete with (and trump) students from schools that others say are "better."</p>
<p>Besides, many of the people who applied ED were planning on applying to schools like HYSMC and all the other great schools out there. Because they got in ED, they didn't. Duh.</p>
<p>Despite suggestions otherwise, I don't hate Princeton at all. It's one of the world's great universities, and I humbly admit that they don't need my opinion to establish that. What I do think is that their admissions strategy is not worthy of them. They are one of the big three and will always be. Frankly, what they need to do is get back to basics get the SATs up. Given their applicant pool, what's the justification for having a 1460 median SAT for early admission, which should be offered to the TOP students, not the marginal ones that they can snatch from HY? I suspect that if the ratings gurus gave SATs a bigger weighting, Princeton would follow suit. Where is that at? Why should they let some David Gergen understudy at US News dictate their admissions policy.</p>
<p>Princeton is a small school, and it has 38 varsity teams to fill, including benchwarmers. With 580 spots open for early decision, and 38 teams to fill--and nearly all of those spots are filled early--of course the early stats are going to be significantly lower. Let's say the average team has 10 players. That's 380 spots for recruited athletes. Let's say that they fill up 340 of those spots during ED (it's probably a little higher than that: ED is their big recruiting tool). That's still well over half of the ED admits as athletes. Personally, every other person I know from my region who got in was an athlete, while many academic superstars got rejected. With such a large portion of the class guaranteed a spot at the school as recruited athletes, it's a wonder that the SAT average is as high as it is for early decision. The unimpressive ED figures are one reason why Hargadon didn't release them on more than one occasion: he knew that people would get the wrong impression, while in fact, the ED admission process, for non-athletes, could very well be more difficult than RD, or EA at the other top ivies for that matter, since there are so few spots left in the early round for non-athletes. Once the RDs are admitted, the stats will rise considerably. Here are last year's stats for the overall class belos. About a 1500 avg. SAT when averaging the 25th and 75th percentiles. And again, i'll point out to everyone that the two most widely recognized rankings (US News and Princeton Review) both place Princeton as a more selective school than Harvard, Yale, or Stanford, based on the admission %, and average scores/rank of the enrollees. </p>
<p>And Byerly, just for you, here are the stats for the applicant pool ("the ones that schools don't release")</p>
<p>Just to add more proof of athletics being a big factor ED, etc., from Minnesota, only 5 people got in early decision - 3 recruited male cross-country runners, 1 recruited female hockey player, and me, who wasn't recruited for crew but I'd been in contact with the coach and basically guaranteed that I'd row for them - so I'm sure it was a big factor (although I do have the academics to back it up).</p>
<p>I have no idea how many people applied; I got that number from the alumni director when he called me to congratulate. I don't think they release the break-down like that - but I know one other girl from here, recruited for rowing, who got deferred.</p>
<p>christopher, the number of admitted athletes would be smaller than what you predicted. you have to keep in mind that say the average team is 10 ppl, there will still be current freshmen, sophomores, and juniors who will still be on that team next year. so there is less need for athletes than you think.</p>
<p>however, i do definitely agree that athletes get preference in the ED round. its obvious looking at the people that got in, that athletes had an advantage.</p>
<p>on the likely letter subject, i got one, and when they called to tell me i got a likely, they also asked me to withdraw all my applications that i had submitted and not to apply anywhere else. so it basically is a guarantee that you're in. all you have to do is wait for the official letter.</p>
<p>wow thats nice, i hope i get one, tho im no athlete, nor an amazingly strong applicant, so its ptobablynot gonna happen, but its nice to dream, lol</p>