EECS or CS?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
1

<p>I really want to go to UCB, but I'm pretty nervous that I'd get rejected if I apply to EECS. Therefore, I ask you, people of cc, which would you recommend? Based on my stats and EC's (listed below), should I apply to EECS in COE or should i apply to letters and sciences, and have a much higher chance of getting accepted, to do CS? </p>

<p>Stats:
SAT1:
2340 (740 CR, 800 Math/Writing)
SAT2:
780 Math2, 790 Chem, 800 USH
GPA:
4.71 weighted 10-12 GPA, not including 12th grade
3.98 9-12 unweighted, not including 12th grade
AP's:
I took Euro, Calc AB, Chem, APUSH, English Lit, and Stats, and got 5's on all of them
Senior year schedule: 6 AP's, 1 unweighted
Taking an intro to compsci class over the summer, it's basically AP Comp Sci</p>

<p>EC's:
Debate(4 years)-probably my strongest EC, I've taken debate camps, taught at them, went to dozens of tournaments, received many awards regionally and some awards at national ones, am varsity in five events(LD,PF,Policy,Congress, Impromptu), have qualified to state tournament in CA, gotten a TOC bid in congress freshman year (i sorta stopped doing congress as much as i used to), main event is now policy, going to be a circuit policy debater in 12th grade, and have over 750 nfl points.
(in colloquial terms, i'm good regionally and highly dedicated to debate, but i'm not amazing nationally or anything)</p>

<p>Tennis(6 years)-I play tennis competitively, but I'm not on the school team or anything. I've been playing since middle school, and I enjoy tennis. </p>

<p>Library Volunteering(3 years)-Volunteered at the summer reading program for 3 summers, going to have spent ~100 hours volunteering here</p>

<p>CSF(3 years)-Volunteered for CSF for a while, going to have ~60 hours, most of which are comprised of tutoring students in math classes</p>

<p>MUN(2 years)-not really that strong, but I've been to one tournament (it was a national tournament and I got a research award at it) and plan on going to a few next year because I enjoyed MUN</p>

<p>Violin(2 years)-did orchestra in 9th and 10th grade, not too passionate about the violin</p>

<p>Karate(8 years)-did karate from 1st-8th grade, became a first degree black belt. unfortunately i moved 50 miles away and didn't continue it into high school. idk if i should even include this. </p>

<p>So there you have it folks. I concede, my stats are above average for EECS and way above average for L&S. But every year, there are alot of people like me who get rejected from EECS and some who get rejected from L&S. I want to do CS for sure in college, but I'm not sure if I want to do EE. I'm scared that applying for EECS could get me rejected from UCB altogether, whereas if I do CS, then I could be missing out on the potential benefits associated with doing EECS. Just fyi, I'm indian and I'm a CA resident and go to a really competitive school (not comparable with Mission, Lynbrook, or Monta Vista, but it comes close). Lastly, sorry for my atrocious grammar guys :3 I know if someone else had such bad grammar, I'd get mad at them. </p>

<p>Anyway, any thoughts, comments, and personal anecdotes are appreciated.</p>

2

<p>EECS’ main advantage is that students who want to emphasize EE need not take any upper division CS courses. Since you want to do CS, that is not relevant to you. EECS is also ABET-accredited; if you want to go into patent law from non-ABET-accredited L&S CS, you may need to add specific course work as listed in the prerequisites for the patent exam.</p>

<p>Curriculum wise, the similarities are:</p>

<ul>
<li>Same lower division CS courses: CS 61A, 61B, 61C, 70</li>
<li>Similar number of upper division CS courses (though EECS majors can choose all EE courses instead).</li>
<li>Many of the same math courses: Math 1A, 1B, 54</li>
</ul>

<p>Differences include:</p>

<ul>
<li>EECS requires EE 40 and EE 20N; L&S CS requires one of EE 20N, 40, or 42.</li>
<li>EECS requires Math 53.</li>
<li>EECS requires Physics 7A, 7B and one more science course; L&S CS only requires science courses for L&S breadth purposes (which allow easier ones for non-majors), though if you want to do the patent exam prerequisites, you need to take the harder science courses.</li>
<li>EECS has breadth requirements that include upper division humanities and social studies (H/SS); AP credit can fulfill up to two lower division H/SS courses, but at most one of the two reading and composition courses. L&S has breadth requirements in seven categories, plus two reading and composition courses and a foreign language requirement; AP credit can fulfill the reading and composition courses and the foreign language requirement, but none of the seven categories (though college courses in your major can be used).</li>
</ul>

<p>More about the degree programs here: [Degree</a> Programs | EECS at UC Berkeley](<a href=“http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/education/degrees.shtml]Degree”>Academics | EECS at UC Berkeley)</p>

<p>Note that L&S CS recently became a capped major, so that you need to meet a minimum of 3.0 GPA in the prerequisite courses in college before declaring the major (previously, the minimum was 2.0).</p>

3

<p>Thanks for your reply!
Now I have some questions–firstly, what is patent law? And besides not being able to do patent law, are there any downsides to not being ABET accredited from UCB?
Also, what exactly are breadth courses? Are they basically like non major specific humanities or something? I know I could simply search it up, but I feel like you would be able to explain it better :3
And finally, which one would you recommend? EECS or CS based on my stats?</p>

4

<p>Patent law is an attorney that represents someone to defend their intellectual property or patent. Like this big issue with Samsung and Apple going back and forth. That is patent attorneys.</p>

<p>Breadth usually means general courses I think. Like the classes that meet your graduation requirement but are not part of your major. Like the culture requirement or whatever it was called.</p>

<p>ABET is the licensing body for engineers, it means a lot when you go to look for a job related to engineering. Sort of like CPA, your certified for your knowledge etc.</p>

5

<p>Thanks for all of your responses guys :smiley:
Unfortunately, nobody has really answered my question: should i apply to EECS in COE or CS in L&S? Any recommendations are appreciated.</p>

6

<p>Assuming that the curricular and ABET differences are not important to you…</p>

<p>EECS is probably harder to get in, but once you are in, you are in the major.</p>

<p>L&S is probably easier to get in, but you have to get a high enough GPA (currently 3.0) in the major prerequisites to declare the CS major after completing the major prerequisites. If not, then you would need to declare an alternate major (applied math seems to be the most common alternate major).</p>

<p>So the question would be, would you rather have a lesser chance of getting into Berkeley at all if you apply to EECS, or a greater chance of getting into Berkeley if you apply to L&S, but then have to maintain a high enough GPA in the CS prerequisites to declare the CS major?</p>

<p>Because EECS majors come in predeclared in the major, they may benefit from scheduling priority for CS courses over frosh/soph L&S students who have not yet declared the CS major.</p>

7

<p>OP, getting into EECS is really competitive and, as you mentioned, even kids with fantastic stats like yours get rejected each year. You say you “really want to go to UCB” … It comes down to: 1) how badly do you want to attend Cal?, and 2) how much of a risk taker are you? </p>

<p>If your goal is to attend Cal at all costs, you’ll likely get in if you apply to L&S. You have a good chance of getting into EECS, but there’s a chance you’ll get rejected too.</p>

8

<p>Why is EECS so much harder to get into? Top execs at Google and stuff are normally CS students, not EECS, right?
How would you compare EECS and CS when it comes to job placements, job demand and salary?</p>

9

<p>journey: Computer Science at Berkeley is impacted, there’s simply not enough room for them to accept everyone. EECS admits directly into the major, so the cap has a direct effect on admissions. L&S admits all students as undeclared, and students need to complete some pre-reqs before the can declare their major (in this case, L&S CS). Of course, L&S CS is getting impacted now as well, and recently raised the GPA requirement to declare a CS major.</p>

<p>In terms of jobs, they’re really the same… EECS requirements are fairly broad, and give students a lot of options. Some EECS students focus on EE, but for those who focus on CS it’s more or less the same classes as L&S CS students take.</p>

10

<p>Honestly, if you have above a 3.0, or 3.1 just to be absolutely safe, in your prereqs, you’re basically guaranteed the LS CS major. At least that’s what my advisor told me at Calso. If you think you can achieve that, by all means apply to L and S. There’s no other advantage EECS has over L and S other than lack of a higher GPA cap.</p>

11

<p>I was in the same position while applying to UCB. My stats were slightly lower than yours and decided to go with L&S CS as I heard that there really is no difference if you want to study CS.</p>

<p>In fact, one of my Berkeley EECS friends said that she regrets not doing L&S CS because there wasn’t any point to the difficult Physics and EE courses she had to take as part of her BS degree requirements.</p>

12

<p>Keep in mind it’s easier to get accepted directly into College of Engineering (CoE) from high school than to switch from L&S as undeclared into CoE as Cal student. Based on your stellar GPA and test scores, you should be accepted. You’ll find it much easier to transfer from CoE to L&S if you decide L&S CS is preferred after a year at Cal. You also have flexibility to explore other engineering majors since you are already in the college. Note: as CoE student, you will have priority for CS classes over the undeclared L&S students. Lastly, I think it’s more difficult to land a Regent scholarship if you apply undeclared L&S. Good luck!</p>

13

<p>Would it be safe to assume that I can count L&S as a low match/high safety or would that be too cocky?
Also, Coll1TBD, why is it easier to get regents in EECS than in L&S? Shouldn’t it be the other way around, as there are a greater number of comparatively less qualified students in L&S?</p>

14

<p>I think it’s reasonable to think of L&S as a low match/high safety.</p>

<p>I was confused by the comment about Regents too. If they just went by stats, the majority of Regents would come from CoE. I’ve heard they limit the number from CoE for that very reason. So it’s essentially easier to get Regents from L&S.</p>

15

<p>I wouldn’t call Berkeley a safety for anyone (especially since the essay and such matters), although with your stats, L&S is probably a low match while EECS is probably a high match, for admissions, if the selectivity is similar to 2008-2009 (the last year that UC Statfinder had when it was up).</p>

16

<p>when i applied, i considered berkeley a safety nikeswag. bro i was expecting that aceptance leter and u should too…</p>

17

<p>NikeSwagDoe - Based on your posted GPA and SAT scores, you should get accepted to either L&S or CoE. It’s just much easier to get into CoE out of high school vs. applying after attending Cal because achieving a good GPA in high school is easier than getting a good one at Cal. With respect to Regents, it’s less about applying under L&S than about applying as an undeclared major. Based on my outside observation of past successful/unsuccessful Regent applicants and conversations with Cal reps, there are slots allocated to colleges depending on type of student Cal is trying to attract. It could vary from year to year. I did notice you did not list AP Physics as part of your high school curriculum. To better prepare for Cal, assuming you’re pursuing a technical major, I would make sure you took this class in senior year. Also, you could consider taking multivariable calc at your local community college. Good luck!</p>

18

<p>Haha Coll1TBD I actually really wanted to take AP Physics but my counselor isn’t letting me take it because i never took physics :frowning:
Next year I’m taking 6 AP classes (including AP CompSci and AP Calc BC) and regular physics
Do you really think that AP Physics will matter significantly?</p>

19

<p>NickSwagDoe - Yes, I think that AP Physics matters significantly. It is unfortunate your counselor requires you to take regular physics before enrolling in AP Physics. At my son’s school, students are allowed to take either regular Physics or AP Physics (B), depending on their personal preference. Since the regular physics class is not very rigorous, the majority of students pursuing technical majors take AP Physics since it better prepares them for taking physics in college. In your case, 6 AP courses is a very heavy course load, especially with all of your extracurricular activities. Can you appeal counselor decision or is school inflexible with its prereqs? If you do get the okay to take AP Physics, you might consider dropping some of the non-technical AP courses to lighten up your load. AP Physics is not an easy class, so will require some time commitment to understand concepts and solve problems. However, I think it will payoff when you get to college and you’re already familiar with the material. Good luck!</p>

20

<p>Yeah, I see what you mean. Unfortunately, there’s quiet a few people like me at my school (with similar stats) who also want to take AP Physics but aren’t being allowed to by the counselors because last year (12-13) there were a bunch of under qualified seniors who took AP Physics and ended up doing poorly in the class. The only person who I know that is being able to skip this year is a kid who finished Calc BC in sophomore year. Although I can always argue with my counselor to take AP Physics and have a courseload of 7 AP classes (oh joy!), do you really think that AP Physics will make or break my application? I understand why you’r emphasizing AP Physics, but it seems kind of far fetched that I would get rejected solely for not having taken AP Physics when I’ve already taken AP Calc AB and BC, AP Chem, AP Bio, and AP CompSci along with 7 other APs (by the time admission officers see my transcript)</p>