<p>I have been helping out college bound inner city youth for some years now. Most of them come out with an EFC of zero, and rightly so. In the past usually they have not been selected for verification. Currently I am doing this with LOTS more students (I know, they are late, it is not my fault) and it seems that those with EFC zero ALWAYS get selected for verification. Has something changed in the system? Just wondering. This often makes for a rather challenging finan. aid situation, as they often have non-functioning parents who cannot obtain paperwork, or parents on SSI (addiction and other health problems) who are almost incapable of getting to a Social Security office to get the needed paperwork. I know students can plead with financial aid officers in reference to their specific situation, but I wonder how much of an obstacle this is, to all the students I DON'T see, who get discouraged and don't even bother to go to college.</p>
<p>I'm confused. For verification all you usually need to send are your tax returns and all the supporting schedules and W-2, and 1099, and 1098 forms. I'm curious why these families would need to go to the SS office to get "needed paperwork". Any "needed paperwork" (like a SS number or card) would have been necessary to GET employment and file a tax return.</p>
<p>I suspect that the current economic situation may be causing colleges to be much more frugal. They may want to be sure that their limited funds are helping the neediest students. That's just a guess, though. Are these schools the same ones you have dealt with in the past? If not, perhaps your students are just happening to pick schools with different policies than the ones you dealt with in the past. The school I used to work at did 100% verification. D applied to a couple schools last year that used IDOC, which is more or less 100% verification. In addition, certain situations will flag an application for verification (eg, an undergrad claiming independent status due to marriage may prompt verification).</p>
<p>We had a 0 EFC this year and were verified. All we had to send were our tax returns, W2s, some SS tax documentation, and we had to complete a form. All documentation we had to provide was required to complete FAFSA in the first place. So it was not a very onerous burden to be verified. </p>
<p>Would have been less onerous if I had everything filed properly. Next year I am going to have everything copied and ready to send if we are verified again.</p>
<p>Our EFC was *d for verification as soon as we pressed the submit button on FAFSA so it was FAFSA initiated rather than by the school</p>
<p>After I sent in my FAFSA, my college asked me to send copies of my W2 and tax returns. Does this mean I was asked flagged for verification, or would they have explicitly said, "We would like this information to verify your EFC" or something like that?</p>
<p>As I understand it, colleges can ask for whatever documentation they want and need. And, I agree with Swimcatsmom-- all you need for the * verification is what you need to prepare the FAFSA in the first place. My D's school asks for these documents for FA renewal every year anyway. So, it seems that it is not any deal at all to be verified.</p>
<p>Every one of the schools D applied to wanted those items, hyperJulie. Many schools ask for them as a matter of routine.</p>
<p>I also agree with Swimcats...thus my question...what exactly did these parents need to get from the SS office that they would not already have had? I'm still confused. Maybe the OP can tell us why the process of providing what you needed to have to complete the FAFSA was problematic. Verification usually requires that you send in the supporting info you USED already to complete the FAFSA. Once the FAFSA is completed, to be honest, verification is a matter of making a lot of copies of your documents. If the OP is helping families with this, the copying would be the only thing necessary...not a trip to the SS office. </p>
<p>And just FYI...we were verified four times...for a student who was NOT receiving a nickel (not a nickel) of need based aid. We just copied everything and mailed it in.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This often makes for a rather challenging finan. aid situation, as they often have non-functioning parents who cannot obtain paperwork, or parents on SSI (addiction and other health problems) who are almost incapable of getting to a Social Security office to get the needed paperwork. I know students can plead with financial aid officers in reference to their specific situation, but I wonder how much of an obstacle this is, to all the students I DON'T see, who get discouraged and don't even bother to go to college.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>For many programs that help provide financial support to low income students; EOP (seek, College Discovery, some College bound programs, trio programs, etc) documentation of income must be presented in order for the child to be eligible for (or to remain in the porgram).</p>
<p>Many schools (along with the federal goverment) want to know how the student and the family is being supported. So obtaining documentation will not be hard. If a student is on public assistance, they just have to get a copy of their budget letter (by the same token, for the family to continue to get PA benefits for the student, they will have to prove that the student is in school so these things work hand in hand). </p>
<p>If a student is collecting SS whether is is SS disability, SSI, death benefits, pension, etc, all they have to do is get a copy of the award letter to give to the school.</p>
<p>If the student is a ward of the court because the family has been disolved the student has to submit a copy of the court papers showing guardianship (they may have to submit copies of the death certificate(s) if this is the reason for the dissolution of the family.</p>
<p>Thanks for your input, folks. The thing is that many low-income families, at least the ones I deal with, have NOWHERE the level of organization to retain, file, remember, or have a clue as to where some of the required documents are--students lose their own W-2s, for goodness sake, in part because no one ever told them those were important papers, or no one in their experience has ever paid taxes. </p>
<p>This is the OTHER side of our society that I am talking about. Thumper1, The trips to SS are to get a print out of benefits for an addict who is on SSI--but finding an addicted mother, getting her to agree to go to the downtown office, finding her sober and functional enough to understand the necessity of said document--youth who are embarrassed or disgusted or completely discouraged by the state of their parents' lives anyway, can find that just too much to manage. Many students live in informal guardian situations, but as we know the FAFSA requires information on an actual biological parent. Well, if one parent is in jail in Texas and the other one is prostituting in the capitol of the next state over (I live in New England), and no biological relative knows how to get in touch with either parent....it's hard. Youth often have little or no idea how to get a death certificate, "Oh, my aunt had that, but she got evicted last fall and it got left at the apartment." Yes, just go downtown and get another death certificate--but if the student has lost their ID and cannot prove that they have a right to ask for it, or their biological father never signed the birth certificate, it's not as easy. Especially when financial aid deadlines are looming. Or Mom is in a mental health facility, and they are not permitted to divulge any information about her, date of birth or social security number, and mom does not wish to or is not capable of sharing that information, even with her daughter who may, hopefully be heading off to college. </p>
<p>Sometimes youth are living in families that are supported by the underground economy, either legitimate or not legitimate. So their income statements show impossibly low amounts of income, and then colleges ask for a budget sheet. I have listed weekly trips to food pantries as a source of meeting food costs, as it happened to be true. </p>
<p>Should these youth get the chance to go to college?! Absolutely! Should they be penalized because their families are not functioning in an organized, paper- and records-based style of life? I don't think so. But I have found, and do think, that producing the amount of paperwork and verification documentation that is required in their situations, is more onerous than we who come from a different experience, might imagine. (Again on the SSI checks--a student,or her parent, can tell me the amount of the check, they remember that (!!)the paperwork is not actually needed, to do the FAFSA). But the statement from the SS office, IS needed, and that is where it gets a lot more challenging. </p>
<p>Whew! I guess I am a bit wound up here! My point though is that what may seem, and should be, easy for many of us, is much more challenging for households that are not used to running their lives this way. I do not argue that verification is not important--I really just wanted to know if an EFC of zero ALWAYS flags a FAFSA for verification. I know the Verification asterisk is put there by the neat computer in MT. Vernon, IL (wink) and that the individual college then has the discretion (or I think they do) to require the documents, or not, but I suspect that when any FAFSA is flagged for verification, the feds. who give out the money, require the verification documents, or at least that the paper trail has been laid, in case of an audit. I would love to hear from anyone who knows more about the insides of the process. And thanks for the interest from all of you.</p>
<p>Re: Post #9. The programs you mentioned are marvelous programs, at least the ones with which I am familiar. But there are thousands of students whose parents or any responsible adults have never taken the time to enroll them in those programs, and those programs also are not large enough to be able to serve the entire population that could be helped. So there are still thousands of students who have not had, yet, to come up with the aforementioned documentation to prove eligibility--until the college application and financial aid process. Upward Bound, Questbridge, Trio, etc., sadly only serve a small part of the low income population. </p>
<p>And, if they don't go to college, what part of our society will they share with the rest of us, in 20 years? (But that is beyond the scope of this thread, I know).</p>
<p>We only wanted the Wnsubsidized Wtafford and PLUS loans. We had to do FAFSA each year, apply for Wubsidized Wtafford which we did not qualify, get decline for the Wubsidized Wtafford, get approved for UnWubsidized Wtafford. And then get Verified each year to prove that we did not qualify for the Wubsidized Wtafford. Each year, I barely changed the numbers on the FAFSA (only the W2 info) and ignored the rest since those numbers would not affect our ineligibility for the subsidized loans or could they be accurately verified (investments).</p>
<p>radimom - Great job on your part for taking the time to recognize these kids could break the cycle of poverty with an education. Just knowing someone cares is a luxury for these kids.</p>
<p>Radimom, thank you for your post. To be completely honest, I never considered what you discuss ... yes, I am guilty of marginalizing this segment of society simply by being ignorant of the realities. I really appreciate your explanation. I happen to be going for an interview later this morning for a financial aid officer position at a community college in a very depressed area. I will ask about the automatic verification & it's implications. Hopefully, I will have something to share later today.</p>
<p>Typically, most students with a zero EFC are not automatically targeted for verification. However, as a Financial Aid Administrator, I do notice that the later one completes the FAFSA, the more like one is to be selected for verification. Also, it appears that part of the issue is not having the necessary documents to complete the verification process....which may be part of the reason these applications are being selected. If the parent/student doesn't have the necessary documents to submit for verification, then they didn't have the documents when they completed the FAFSA. Therefore, the numbers submitted may not jive. Even if the Dept of Education doesn't automatically select the application for verification, the school is obligated to select the application if there appears to be conflicting information...which occurs quite often on applications where guesstimated are used. For example, when I am reviewing applications, if the totals end in zero's (such as 18,000for AGI, 18,000 earned income, 200 taxes paid ) I will pull the application and require the student/parent submit to the verification process. Very rarely do actual figures result in zero's like that, so it is a key indicator that estimates have been used. It is important that all applicants use the REAL figures when they submit their FAFSA (aside from those using a will file status).</p>
<p>I have personally used financial aid at several schools over the years and almost always (until this year) had a zero EFC....and I have never EVER been selected for verification but the Dept of Education or the school. At least 3/4 of my students who have a zero EFC don't get selected either. </p>
<p>Regarding the asterick, the requirement for paperwork and the discretion of Financial Aid Offices: FAO's do not have discretion if the application was automatically selected or if conflicting infomation appears on the application. Also, most of the requested documentation is what the Dept of Education specifically requires the FAO to obtain. There is a little "wiggle-room" such as accepting the documents without the W2 forms (recent DOE clarification specifically states that a school cannot refuse to process Federal Aid if the student/parent is unable to present the W2 forms. Schools can, however, refuse to issue school based aid if the W2 are not presented.)</p>
<p>I wasn't able to ask today, because the interview was a bit different than the f/a interview I had last week at another school - more h/r people than f/a!</p>
<p>However, I will post a link that may help you: </p>
<p>Page 3 is the beginning of info that might be relevant to you.</p>
<p>Finally I have a chance to post tonight, to THANK all of you, especially NikkiiL, for your really helpful information! The info about doing the FAFSA late, particularly explains what I have been seeing. I feel much less in the dark. And kelsmom, the info on that website was Really helpful, as well.</p>
<p>Another interesting "window" FWIW, on this side of the culture: I mentioned fathers who have never signed the birth certificate. Even after all my years dealing with this economic stratum of society, I learned this recently: mom told father of potential college student (I hope he gets to go somewhere, at least) "not to sign the birth certificate, so that then she could get her welfare check for the kid." Well, mom has descended into major alcoholism, but somewhere along the way, maybe part of "the end of welfare as we know it," said father has been identified as the father of this kid. So, father tells me (while I am helping him with taxes in order to do his kid's FAFSA), "There is no point in working, because they just take all my money for back child support." Now I get it! The light bulb went off in my mind--I had been wondering for ages why this seemingly able-bodied male, supporting 2 kids who reverted to him after the mother sunk into alcoholism, just didn't ever work much. And many of the others like him, with whom I come in contact.</p>
<p>And then Anericans have conniptions about undocumented persons mooching off our system!</p>