<p>Nice to know that our forum is considered more interesting :D</p>
<p>Thanks, Hunt; that was what I was going to say: whatever you do, please don’t torture your son with Ayn Rand (whom I loved, briefly, when I was 12 but quickly got sick of).</p>
<p>Times have really changed. Back in the Dark Ages, I was a NMF but didn’t study one little bit for the PSAT/NMSQT’s or the SAT’s. Nobody I knew studied for standardized tests; we all looked down on anyone who did.</p>
<p>My son didn’t study at all for the PSAT’s except to take a couple of practice tests, and did well enough to be commended (there was a very high cutoff in NJ for anything more). He then took an SAT prep course and thought it was basically worthless. But he did do a lot of studying (on his own) for his math SAT the second time he took it, and raised his score more than 100 points if I remember correctly, so studying obviously can help. Still, I think that what allowed him to do as well as he did on the reading was the thousands of hours he spent reading anything and everything, from the time he was a small child. You can’t learn to be like he is that way in a summer, or a year. It takes a lifetime. </p>
<p>And now he has to start thinking about his GRE’s, specifically the math part. Hopefully, for someone interested in an Art History Ph.D., how he does won’t matter very much!</p>
<p>Momom2, I support your cause fully. It truly is embarrassing and infuriating when a child is not a NMF. He undermined your trust when he cheated off those practice tests. Because of that, he does deserve to study 2-3 hours a day minimum. I know many posters here may think that this is a small issue, but on a bigger picture, it shows that he will be more likely to cheat in other aspects of his life. </p>
<p>Kids these days are much lazier. I think these habits are the result of computers, tv, video games, and friends. That said, you should probably ban him from all of these activities for the rest of his high school career. In fact, if he gets into any college lower than HYPSMC, he should be disowned. Cut him off completely, financially and emotionally. Never speak to him again. </p>
<p>Also, I believe that it is realistic that you want him to support you when you’re old. Kids these days don’t have any respect or loyalty for their parents like they did in the 1800s/1900s. After all, who do they think provided them food, shelter, and clothing? I don’t understand how they can be so ungrateful. Hence, they OWE it their parents to support them when they’re old. Trust me, familial relationships aren’t built off of love. It’s an unwritten business contract. Parents support kids when they’re young. Kids support parents when they’re old. Having kids is simply a financial investment on one’s lives.</p>
<p>Sarcasm, anyone?!? Sad but true for some unhappy people.</p>
<p>Nevermind. 10 char’s.</p>
<p>"i am amazed at all the responses saying that 2-3 hours a day study is ridiculous, excessive, punitive, etc., etc.</p>
<p>It is a very important test, the skills will transfer into the real SAT which is also very important. Preparing for SAT should includes reviewing, studying and drilling math topics and going over grammar and vocabulary, so it is not a waste of time educationally either.</p>
<p>Now I see why the students in China can get such good scores, even in a foreign language, with their 12 hours a day approach to SAT preparation.
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<p>Nope, the SAT is only a means to an end. It’s not “important” in any long run.</p>
<p>And here we value having a life over bubbling in boxes. Education isn’t really about picking the right answers off a list already determined; it’s asking questions that have never been asked and finding answers that haven’t already been identified by others.</p>
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<p>SAT is important because it is a means to an end, for that reason alone it is worth some time. The content is not totally ridiculous, learning some more words or reviewing basic arithmetic isn’t such a bad thing.</p>
<p>It seems to me that US education is about a myth of creativity, but in fact it is 90% busy work and multiple choice tests - a LOT of bubbling in boxes. At university in the US, do kids really ‘think for themselves’ MORE than in other countries? It is the same old problem sets and lab reports and midterms and group projects and presentations anywhere you go. Just in many countries they expect you have the basic facts in place before your opinion is respected.</p>
<p>Graduates from foreign countries seem to have no problem in graduate school in the US, and no problem filling highly skilled (and creative) positions in the US workforce.</p>
<p>sorghum, there is also the possibility of self-selection. Not every top student from Country X chooses to attempt to come to the US…</p>
<p>BTW, my kid’s education was definitely NOT dominated by multiple choice tests and bubbling boxes. Sounds as if you are describing the lowest common denominator of US education.</p>
<p>Momom2, are you getting help for your son’s c/p? The cheating is unfortunate, but lbe sure to focus on the whole picture.</p>
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<p>key word “some”</p>
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<p>I believe the US has by far the highest number of Nobel prize winners; seems they must be thinking for themselves.</p>
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<p>Did you mean to exclude the US? Or are you implying this is true for many countries besides the US (you’re very unclear here).</p>
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<p>why bother coming to the US if the education is so lacking in “creativity”?</p>
<p>sorghum, why the sour grapes attitude?</p>
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<p>Some beliefs are subject to checking, and in this case you are right, in terms of absolute numbers. Subject to small errors, perhaps, but:</p>
<p>The US has 326 Nobel Prize winners, with 84 identified as born elsewhere.</p>
<p>The UK has 116 with 28 born elsewhere.</p>
<p>Germany has 102 with 10 born elsewhere.</p>
<p>On a population basis, and using Nobel prizes as a proxy for creativity, seems the US is not the top nation in ‘thinking for themselves’.</p>
<p>I see that The People’s Republic of China has exactly 2 and the Republic of China has exactly 3. And none of these people were born elsewhere. I guess if you want to compare on a population basis, the Chinese are not stacking up too great in this department.</p>
<p>Thirteen weeks is plenty of time to prepare for the PSAT.</p>
<p>2-3 hours a day is overkill.</p>
<p>You need to look objectively at why your S did what he did with his BB drills - you may have a deeper issue. If he does not have the internal drive to work hard to chase a high PSAT score, it may be that he has other talents. </p>
<p>Are you loving the kid on the couch?</p>
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<p>Hah, I knew that was coming. </p>
<p>There is some vague relation between industrial-economic base and the ability to win Nobel Prizes.</p>
<p>I think China’s economic advances in the recent couple of decades has been made possible by a domestic education and a huge outpouring of creativity. Eventually, this may show up in Nobel Prizes, but I think a strong stable economic level comes first.</p>
<p>“The US has 326 Nobel Prize winners, with 84 identified as born elsewhere.” Those 84 future Nobel laureates were thinking for themselves when the immigrated to the U.S.A.</p>
<p>“I think China’s economic advances in the recent couple of decades has been made possible by a domestic education and a huge outpouring of creativity.” uh . . . and international intellectual property piracy - not exactly evidence of creativity.</p>
<p>Tiger Mom?</p>
<p>If your son doesn’t want to put the effort forward now, let him. He’ll regret it later in life.</p>
<p>There is a college for everyone…even those who do not reach NMSF status and do not have college savings for their kids. Look at that tuition exchange list again and see where your son MIGHT have the option of attending if he gets selected. There are hundreds of tuition exchange schools and many of them DO have engineering. Also, keep in mind that he is only a high school rising junior…and he might NOT end up majoring in engineering at all.</p>
<p>You should also look at the public universities IN our state of residence. Most public flagships have an engineering program…and the costs would be a fraction of any private school. </p>
<p>If push comes to shove, your son can do what my husband (a successful engineer) did. He took his basic core courses (yes that included some of the courses in the “engineering sequence”) at the local community college and then transfered to a four year school to complete his engineering degree. If money really is an issue, your son could do that.</p>
<p>P.S. Our daughter graduated from college a year ago with a degree in engineering. We had NO college savings, and like you we did not qualify for need based aid. We paid from current earnings. She was NOT a NMSF, and actually only received a small merit award from her school. Somehow we made it happen…and so did she.</p>
<p>Yeah, they were thinking ‘where can a creative guy like me get a nice life and facilities to get stuff done’.</p>
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<p>Intellectual property is a matter of national law. US companies can and will steal any invention that is not protected by US patent. And try being a Canadian inventor of say ice beer and protect your rights in a US court in St. Louis, MO.</p>