Emory College or Oxford College (University of Emory)

Colleges and Universities A-Z Emory University
1

Ive been accepted into both colleges, but im not sure which one to pick. I really like the liberal arts setting of the Oxford college in Emory University as well as the small town that it is set in.

  1. Im going to major in biology, and follow the pre-med track, so would it be better for me to go to the Emory campus?
  1. Also, is there anything to do in Oxford? Im in favor of the small setting, but I dont want to end up attending a middle of no where ghost town college (no offense, but ive searched up the area, and it seems...dull, but I may be completely wrong).
  2. Lastly, is it true that Oxford is a "backdoor" into Emory? As in, will I be looked down upon if I attend Oxford rather than Emory? (they seem pretty much the same to me, except for the setting).
2

@NotADrugSmuggler‌

  1. Oxford is better for introductory biology (and maybe even chem) training and will you set you up better for success in advanced (especially the better, often more rigorous ones) courses and/or research on main campus. Just save ochem for main as it provides better training in that subject (you can opt to take biochem and ochem 2 at the same time, but it depends on when you want to take the MCAT. If sophomore summer or early junior year, just complete ochem at Oxford). I don't see why anyone would think main is particularly special with pre-med. It really isn't (as I will explain below).
  2. Don't really know. Join clubs....I'm sure that will give you something to do whether on campus, in that town, or the greater Atlanta area.
  3. By who?.....admissions committees for grad/professional schools certainly do not care (Oxford students perform quite well at gaining access to selective doctoral programs and professional programs as well), but some idiot snobs on main campus do care and do view it as a backdoor(one just as selective as say, UCLA in terms of SATs....) and I suppose it technically is, but it doesn't really matter, output does. In many areas, Oxford is doing extremely well at producing high quality students (seems to actually do something to folks whereas main is more like: What you put in is what you get out).

If you are more worried about social gratification, come on over to main, just don’t expect the most interesting science or pre-med education (or advising) if you are stereotypical…you will be swept into a weird culture, where students would rather take the crappy or unknown instructors (literally, students “elect” new instructors they know nothing about to avoid the instructors that are known to be “phenomenal, but hard”), many instructors (look in biology and even general chemistry to some degree) are lowering standards to avoid complaints, and other things. You can easily set yourself up for either success or failure due to the variation in instructional rigor and quality and ones affinity (or lackthereof) of “groupthink” (like: “we will all take the bad or mediocre instructor because they are a nice person and grades easily”- The reality is: The one who can perform well in any environment will have the best outcomes). From what I hear, Oxford has much more standardization of curricula, and also the lab components tend to be much cooler which actually make you enjoy science. Introductory courses at main end up seeming more like hoops to jump through, though there is evidence that they are attempting to change that in biology and chemistry. It is just difficult to do at a larger campus.

If you came to main, I would carve out a phenomenal science and non-science pathway for yourself (avoid listening to pre-health mentoring at face value nor squeamish peers who are “afraid”-often code for lazy). I would do things like use AP credit (as opposed to forfeiting for a “refresher”. Often a person who recently took and got a 5 needs no refresher and is wasting a year) to gain access to better courses. Like you can take ochem (please avoid 221/222-Z or 221 w/Menger if you expect to actually learn) w/AP credit for chem or maybe analytical if you ask politely. Or if you have biology, you can start with organismal biology with Dr. Beck in the fall and take 141-L with it and then take the 142 lecture and lab in the spring. This would be the least risky option as you are a bio major so will take many upperlevel biology courses to make up for the fact that you missed 141 (not that many med. schools will care, and organismal will automatically meet the compensatory upperlevel course for 141). PHMO will, in its strangeness try to tell everyone that you must “have 2 semesters of general X”, which simply is not true. Many more pathways exist for a student who comes in with good preparation, and often those who do well on these other pathways end up with higher success rates than those who forfeited in favor of the “most traveled”. On top of navigating science properly, choose non-sciences that will make you read and write a lot. That sort of thing is beneficial in life and on reading intensive standardized exams like the MCAT (joining a research lab or taking biology courses with discussion sections can also help. You want any means to get experience analyzing data or competing claims, etc. You don’t want to constantly find yourself in courses that mainly require rote memorization of facts and surface level understanding). Often science courses do not develop that skill adequately and nor will taking the easiest of non-sciences (and one may say:“well I need easy non-sciences to boost my overall GPA”-the reality is that if you do the work for most non-sciences, even those with a heavy writing or reading load, you will do pretty well. The same cannot always be said for some science or math courses where it is often a matter of the material “clicking”).

3

We looked at the same question a few years ago. If you feel you need more personal attention in your academics than choose Oxford. And, yes, after 2 years at Oxford you will be moved to the Emory campus. So we compared both school’s stats. Oxford has lower retention and graduation rates than Emory. This suggests that kids who are accepted only to Oxford are less likely to get into their chosen major at Emory after applying. My question is: do you have to apply to get into your major. I only know about the undergrad business major and you have to apply and get in and will have wasted 2 years at Oxford and have to transfer if you don’t get in. My D chose an undergrad b-school where business was her major on the first day and not on the first day of her third year after getting accepted, in essence, to a second school.

Also, Emory’s campus doesn’t seem all that big and spread out compared to other colleges we visited so the small feel was still there with the bonus of jumping on the shuttle to Atlanta. Also…you have a swimming pool!!!

if you need to work or want to gain some experience in your field, but outside of the classroom then Emory is the way to go as there is a lot more opportunity within walking distance. And the faculty are much more likely to have connections to area jobs in your pre-med track than faculty at Oxford.

Obviously I can’t make a decision for you, but hopefully have provided some food for thought.

4

Campus geographical size does not=small class size (classes on main can get large, though still smaller than many peer schools in the sciences). Also, the lower retention rate suggests that Oxford could be harder or that the environment was not for those folks (as in, they wanted something different/perhaps they foolishly approached Oxford w/“the means justify the ends” with the ends being a degree with main campus’s name on it. They did not consider fit when enrolling, nor the actual nature of those first 2 years). Regardless, majors are not applied to. The only time you have to apply to anything is if you apply to other undergraduate entities such as GBS or the nursing school. If you stay in ECAS, you simply declare whatever major you want. There are no GPA restrictions. For GBS, I am willing to bet that GPA’s in pre-reqs at Oxford are really no harshly distributed than on main. Social sciences and humanities (most of the classes taken by pre-BBA students) grade similarly and that grading is not that harsh overall. I could however envision a scenario where science GPA’s at Oxford are sometimes lower than those on main for the first two years (and thus overall GPA’s). One may also claim that Oxford students come in with lower HS GPA’s to begin with, so this may have an effect as well.

As for b-school structure. Different strokes for different folks. I honestly do not know if I like the idea of a 4 year business education…A lot has been said about the efficacy and rigor of BBA programs (in general) in comparison to others. Exposure to other things before going can’t really hurt. If anything, students will approach the BBA with a more open mind and maybe even skills not as emphasized in BBA curricula that do end up being very useful. In addition, interests in the college can translate into entrepreneurial endeavors or less common interests as opposed to the standard chase of high finance or consulting jobs. Like if a student spends time in the CS or math dept before going, it can be advantageous…and provide more interesting options…I feel like this story is less likely with the 4 year model unless you know at the very beginning of college your plans of doing CS and business (which this girl did not): http://iamemory.blog.emoryadmission.com/2014/12/21/i-am-krista-diehl-and-i-am-emory/ . I feel the risk of not getting into the “premier” business school is amplified when you merely spend the first two years with a “risk free plan” of merely fullfilling b-school pre-reqs and taking easy gen. ed requirements to keep the GPA high and party one’s way into the b-school (no offense, but many do tend to choose this sort of path). Those with a more open mind or strategic approach/exploratory approach will have other options. Like this girl, who was initially pre-med (and considered GBS at one point I believe) obviously did not need to worry about the risk of not getting in (she hit the ground running with her business “education”, by simply being creative and doing and creating her own business (s), not taking business classes): http://iamemory.blog.emoryadmission.com/2014/12/02/i-am-kaeya-majmundar-and-i-am-emory/ . It just depends, the 2 year model is only truly risky for those who are unwilling to use those first years to explore/develop something significant and instead just jump through hoops.

A lot has been discussed about UG business (even by those who run the programs) such as this: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304072004577323754019227394 Many such articles make me trust the Emory model a little more despite its loopholes and issues.

5

My daughter was admitted to Oxford and waitlisted at main, but in reality the only reason she considered Emory at all was because of Oxford. She is drawn to the intimate liberal arts experience and has refused to consider any mega college, but the idea of having both the liberal arts experience and the university experience in the same 4 year education is unique and appealing to her. But seeing the talk of how people have an attitude toward transfers out of oxford makes me hesitate to suggest that route. She was just accepted to Rice which may be more her size. We are still deciding whether to make the trip down to Oxford now, but without Oxford, like I said, she would never have applied. She is planning to major in Anthropology and Geology, are the non pre-professional majors worth it at Emory? She applied there because she didn’t want to go any further north of our home in southern New Jersey. She wanted the southern climate without the conservative southern attitude, the frats and the sports obsessions, but am I to believe people who transfer out of Oxford will not feel welcome at main?

6

Emory doesn’t have geology. Sure there are a few courses including intro, the occasional mineralogy course at Oxford, and hydrology, but if your daughter wants to learn anything beyond the very basic material, she will have to go elsewhere. Rice on the other hand has an outstanding geology program.

7

I’m in the same situation as you. I like oxford’s faculty and students, but its very small. The campus is tiny, the town of oxford is nonexistent, and convington’s claim to fame is vampire diaries. For me, thats the biggest thing thats holding me back.

8

my senior class is very small, less than a hundred students, and to be honest, I dont think i can handle the transition. But Oxfords campus provides a highschool like setting, plus ive lived in secluded areas with big cities near them, and it provides sort of an escape when u cant handle the quite town any more. The campus is decent, plus you go directly to Emory after 2 years (i think i can adjust to a bigger university in that time). The only thing thats holding me back is the resources that will be available to you. I take IB and am hoping for as many credit hours as i can get, my main concern is what happens wen the next level class i take isnt at oxford?

9

@whenwhen : Actually, it looks like environmental sciences at Emory is trying to pull something off in conjunction with the “engineering sciences” major that is coming. In fact, I’m willing to bet that they are the only dept that may contribute anything particularly good. http://college.emory.edu/home/assets/documents/proposals/2015/spring/cc-meeting-1/New%20Program%20for%20BS%20in%20Engineering%20Sciences.pdf

I think envs is actually interested in creating new courses (beat that chem and physics! lol)

10

Honestly, sorry to say, Oxford is nothing without Emory. Emory is the institution that holds up the prestige. I really don’t even know why Oxford hasn’t been removed yet from the entire curriculum, but that’s beyond me. Regardless, if you got into both Oxford and Emory, there is no doubt in my mind that you should definitely choose Emory. Oxford is a hell hole and I couldn’t see myself living there for 2 years at a school that has half the amount of kids that my high school does.

11

I have been on both Oxford and Emory campuses, and they are completely different. I hear the general stereotype of Emory folks looking down on the Oxford folks, so there is probably something to the gossip, but not sure how that would impact an individual student’s transition.

Oxford could feel like the size of your high school, it is that tiny, and there is no town right at the college. Nothing in walking distance that I am aware of. But, I have heard great stories of students loving their experience, if the fit is right for the student.

Emory doesn’t feel like a huge school to me, but you have the hospital and assorted physicians office buildings right there also. Lots of traffic coming through the campus. Greek life appears to be big on Emory campus. Students don’t seem to care about their sports teams, although I know Emory’s swim teams are top notch. It is a really different feel on campus at Emory, and I don’t know how to describe it. Maybe a lack of school spirit in general?

I would highly recommend you get your feet on the ground at Oxford before you make a decision. If a small campus and a closer-knit community is to your liking, then Oxford is the place for you.

12

@OnlyYesterday‌ : Sorry you think that, but no one cares. You are clearly not a person that primarily cares about the quality of education provided, you care about prestige, quality of life (something increasing at both campuses) and size. You could be right about the prestige issue and Oxford, but there is absolutely no doubt that much their curriculum, you know the part that actually contributes to ones in class education, is often better at Oxford merely because of the size and the fact that they have a higher proportion of instructors that care and know about teaching (main campus is honestly trying to find ways to replicate different elements that have existed at Oxford for quite a while). The education at Oxford, for someone considering science or anything like it is in general stronger over there. It really just depends on the values of the students. If you don’t actually care much about the academics(one can argue that this is the case regardless of what students actually say…students applying to colleges tend to claim that they care about academic quality, but often they don’t know what it is and sometimes equate “more variety” to quality, which unfortunately often is not the case as you can get crappy instruction in a variety of courses), then it is completely valid to think in such terms. I am not saying that main was particularly bad (it is much better than you would expect for an R-1 university), but to say that it is comparable to what is often provided at a place focusing on a liberal arts approach is kind of bologna. There is so much literature on the woes of academics and research universities (selective and non) that it is ridiculous.

13

@powercropper: I would not qualify the Emory feel as “lack of school spirit in general”. This is only the case if you consider sports fervor the sole generator of “spirit”. Emory’s school spirit and ethos just manifests itself much differently than a place with a D-1 sports scene AND Greek Life. Emory is honestly likely to feel more “serious” than other places ranked around it (above and below) because of the lack of D-1, and this is not necessarily a bad thing as interesting traditions come out of schools that lack a D-1 scene, and Emory has plenty of the more quirky traditions that make the place feel as if it is a college as opposed to a 4-year amusement park with some challenging coursework. In addition, I would argue that, while I do not like the general building boom that both private and public colleges do to appease students, I do like the fact that Emory’s construction projects tend to focus on healthcare and academic buildings almost as much “comfort” (like new dorms, gyms, and dining facilities). Usually academic and healthcare buildings are going up at the same time or before other quality of life things are happening.

Like you may have a new theology, chemistry, psychology, public health building, research building, w/e go up with dorms and things like that. Unfortunately at many schools, it is quality of life (or marketing) first and then academics and research last in terms of facilities. To me, this says: “It is better to make the campus pretty with nice amenities to draw them here and then risk providing them a mediocre education than it is to focus on nice academic facilities and programs and then make them more comfortable as they go along”). In addition, I notice that many other schools often do not accompany new academic buildings with enhancements to their programs or curricula, but instead just assume it is enough to have a shiny new facility. Lately, some departments at Emory have been using the facility as an opportunity to actually do things better and not merely “trick” graduates and undergraduates into coming. The point is, I see some long overdue efforts to actually improve academics on main, and this isn’t too common in highered, even at the best colleges which typically assume: “Well, we’re clearly good enough in that area as our rank is high, so lets boost it by doing things that increase the inflow of applications”-you know, like building a new gym. Looking back, I realize how naive people like me and other HS seniors were/are.

We buy into the hype and marketing so easily and fail to ask the right questions. It is no wonder why when someone is receiving mediocre instruction at a place like Emory, Vanderbilt, Duke, wherever, that it is assumed that it must be the best that they can get because no lower ranked places can do it better…These are things to think about. If I had a child considering these sorts of places, I would encourage them to think deeper than how a place “felt” or “presented itself”. I would have them go to classes so that they can see variation in instruction levels and quality (perhaps see what “average” is and also see what “phenomenal”. Ask students if the instructor is somewhat challenging or perhaps ask them what is one of the most rigorous instructors they have had and explain what made the course challenging and also ask if the instructor was any good and if they got something out of it. You can see yourself in some cases. Like with chemistry, there are bins on the 2nd and 3rd floor with ochem exams and gen. chem exams respectively. Could be a good chance for someone expecting gen. chem credit to measure their current education up or if they have been exposed to ochem via an IB curriculum, how does it compare to a more rigorous than normal university instructor…). I guess I would just want to know what all my child would be doing other than taking classes and having fun. And often we pry deep into the “fun” part without thinking deeply about the “classes” part. And honestly, if I found nothing special about the courses or any of the instructors at the expensive private school, to the state school (if lucky an honors program) my child goes. The other scenario I would do this is if my child wants the prestige of the private college but will not take advantage of it/will refuse and avoid being challenged in the environment because if they do that, it offers no real outcome over just making a bunch of easy A’s somewhere else (while having more of their share of fun). If I had a child go into the sciences as I am, then I would certainly watch closely to make sure they are receiving or choosing academics at an appropriate level. If my child feels like almost every class is “easy” or “okay” then the school or curriculum likely is not doing its job. If they are going to do well, they should struggle every now and then and have to think hard often if they are at a place that costs 50-60k. I would hope that such a place is training my child to actually be better and not just affirming that they were good when they came in.

14

Bernie 12, I see where you are coming from. I haven’t been a college student for decades, so my knowledge and “feel” of the campuses is very vague compared to others. I am always about the “fit” of a college and not the prestige, or even the school spirit. And the idea of digging into a department and figuring out if the professors have a passion for teaching, for leading students in research, or if the courses are deep enough for you to soak in the knowledge you are going to need later on–these are the things that we should be focusing on instead of which shiny new building is going up on campus.

I’m a big fan of getting your feet on a campus, talking with actual students (folks who are not being paid by Admissions Office to be nice to you), and connecting with the professors who will be teaching in your major field.

Some high school students are looking to launch their educational careers, and some are just looking for freedom and independence.

15

@powercropper‌ : Well, again, we are very young and impressionable and when choosing between similarly selective and prestigious schools may make dumb decisions like choosing the one with the highest rank or the most “fun” just assuming that because they are ranked or regarded similarly, that educational quality and style may be the same. And sometimes what comes from this is students choosing a school based its slightly higher overall rank for a department that the lower rank is much stronger in. Like for example, if I was considering chemistry as an undergraduate, I would go to JHU or WashU over Duke or Emory over Vanderbilt or something like that. Or things like becoming a psychology major can be very nuanced. A student may assume that all schools teach the same thing, but often they don’t. Like at Emory, the psychology departments’s undergraduate course offerings are more rooted in neuroscience and biology than the normal department such that if a child expected more “social” than behavioral/biopsychology, they are going to be slapped in the face when they take psychology 110, part of a two part psyche intro. sequence that mainly focuses on neuroscience and biology. We are one of the only schools that has a two part psyche sequence with 111 being the part that most resembles AP psychology and looks like the standard psyche class that students at most colleges usually associate with ease and rote memorization and 110 being a completely different animal. Neuroscience concentrations and majors are not created equal at all selective schools that claim to have it. The curricula can look completely different and offer completely different opportunities. The marketing of these schools on several fronts (by admissions staffs and general campus beauty) can serve to distract students from things like that and get them to not consider it at all. Then you get cases where the student arrives and realizes that their major or concentration/interest is flat out not available or is much more lackluster than expected. I just argue that people be careful. If a student is serious about starting an educational career (unfortunately, we know that for some paths, this involves jumping through a series of academic hoops in which many students may really only care about getting the least challenging instructors possible), I encourage them to look up the areas of interest via departmental websites and compare course offerings and descriptions of those courses either before or after a visit.

16

@bernie12 Thanks for the helpful commentary. Do you know whether students who start off at Oxford are able to major or minor in musical performance (specifically classical voice) upon moving over to Emory College?

17

@bernie12‌ I’m aware of the current push by the ENVS Department to add more geoscience courses, and frankly it’s about time (a serious environmental science program should have geology offerings since they are so interrelated). However, the offerings are limited and many of the “core” courses are missing.

@OnlyYesterday‌ Yes, Oxford is nothing without the greater Emory University, and that’s the beauty of it. There are no other schools which combine a true liberal arts college with a prestigious research university in the world. One of the great things about Oxford is that the size allows for interdepartmental collaboration, close connections (you recognize everyone by the second month), and small classes. Oxford may not be for you, but it is for many people, and advocating that Emory close it down, which they will not do, is foolish.

18

I would imagine so, but perhaps contact someone in the music department and ask them how accessible their offerings are to transfers or continuees (like ask if anyone from Oxford has joined them and to what extent).

19

thank you for the reply. I had hoped to bring my daughter down to see oxford. Atlanta and the Atlanta climate seems to me to be a very appealing place to attend college. My daughter’s interest in a major has been constantly changing over the last two years of the college application process. But as of the moment the lean is for anthropology and geology, last two years, first it was astronomy, so on hearing that Emory does not offer geology given also that at the moment they have offered less financial aid then Rice she has pretty much written it off her list. The two she is considering the hardest are Colgate, which gave a heads and above financial aid package, Rice and Smith. Rice would cost an extra 20000, all in debt, to graduate from then Colgate. Of course Colgate is the probably the worst match to her culturally but she is leaning with going for the money. Am I to totally assume, though, that the final word is that the Emory system does not offer geology?

20

@robotrain I would not make that assumption about geology at Oxford at Emory. Oxford at Emory is building a new science building that is scheduled to be on line as of Spring 2016 (second semester for freshmen enrolling Fall 2015). You can search the Oxford at Emory website for details about the building.

I found this page:

Dining Hall Waste
March 12, 2015 Author: admission
No comment yet

Oxford Science Building. This week’s installment of “What’s New” is brought to you to Myra Frady, CFO of Oxford College and guru of the newest building going up on campus, the Science Building. We spent a few minutes discussing the building and other exciting developments to the campus’ sustainability efforts. Read on to find out what is up and coming at Oxford!

Tell me about the new Science Building. When will it open? What will be in there?

There will be nine teaching laboratories for biology, chemistry, physics, astronomy, and geology along with three labs for research, three classrooms, an imaging center and a greenhouse. Faculty offices will also be in the building, along with private and common study areas, and a large common area, called the “Nucleus”, where informal conversations between faculty and students can happen. This new building is going to be able to meet the needs of our outstanding science programs and allow us to grow for years to come.

Note that the new building is meant to house the geology department among others.

If Oxford at Emory remains a viable option, I encourage you and/or your daughter to call the geology department and to ask to speak with a counselor or professor. You might consider doing the same at Emory College because that is where your daughter will take upper class courses in her major.