<p>“There are many good reasons to choose to attend Emory. There are many good reasons to never consider Emory. But Bescraze’s blind affection for a narrow ranking of a school’s prestige without allowing other important factors into consideration is irresponsible.”</p>
<p>Welcome to CC.</p>
<p>Cayuga look at the facts, which I made abundantly clear on the other pages. In cross admits Emory loses out every single time to Ivies, why do you think that is? Obviously you can’t go around interviewing every Emory student, but there is no question that allot of those kids who attend Emory were in fact rejected from an Ivy league school. Why do you think Emory’s yield is what it is and its selectivity. Do some kids choose certain schools like vanderbilt/Emory over an IVY, SURE, but they are a vast minority. Look at other people’s points on this topic, which has been going on for pages. So why is my statement wrong. Statistically the evidence agrees with it, so what is your argument?</p>
<p>My point is simply that the data shows that most people who are accepted to ivies attend one of them or another similar elite university. Students who choose otherwise do not exist in meaningful numbers. Therefore once again is my statement wrong, because it so blatantly honest that it offends you? t</p>
<p>Bescraze: I’ve never thrown out random statistical facts about Emory or any other schools in this thread. Everything I’ve said is either 1) my explicit opinion or 2) common sense. </p>
<p>lol, you’re fighting a losing battle here.</p>
<p>This kid is outta control. I really wish he could end up at one of his dream colleges with ultra prestige so that he may become a better informed, more straight-thinking, and a more sensible human being.</p>
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<p>But if you were rejected from all of the Ivies, you can’t be a cross-admit…</p>
<p>Let’s take a step back here and digest what the cacophony of voices are trying to tell you. Nobody is saying that there aren’t schools better than Emory. And nobody is saying that cross-admits don’t tend to choose Ivies over Emory.</p>
<p>What we are saying is that there may be very valid reasons for a student to choose Emory over other schools, and that what’s much more important for success is personal skills and drive, not the school you attend. The idea that the school is only composed Ivy rejects is ridiculous. Plenty of Emory students probably never considered the Ivies. Others reject Ivies or superior schools for good reason.</p>
<p>So where everybody is taking offense is your lack of nuance and appreciation for the individual characteristics of student situations. It’s outlandish for you to come on to these boards and offer statements like “Wustl is far superior in reputation to Emory” completely from right field.</p>
<p>As for whether or not there are any back doors into Cornell. I don’t think so. Everybody Cornell admits is well suited for their schools. The architecture students don’t have the best grade point averages or class rank, but they have kick ass portfolios. The hotel school students have significantly lower SAT scores than the rest of the undergraduate population as a whole, but they more than make up for it in their passionate interest in hospitality. Believe it or not, they are some of the best students on campus. </p>
<p>That being said, Cornell is different from a lot of other schools in the philosophy that it tries to accept and educate as many students as possible provided they will benefit from their education and their academics past muster. So the University takes a fair number (500) of transfers a year. And at least in my experience at Cornell, transfers were often more impressive than non-transfers. One transfer in my graduating ILR class won a Rhodes Scholarship.</p>
<p>Some may consider this aspect of Cornell unfortunate. I consider it one of its greatest strengths.</p>
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<p>I actually hope he ends up at a place like Wake Forest so he can wake up and smell the roses.</p>
<p>^^Thank you for your concern over my credentials, but trust me they are very good. </p>
<p>I do retract my statement about WUSTL being far superior to Emory, it was a little tactless. So here is my question why would someone choose Emory over an Ivy? Kids at Emory are for the most part very prestige oriented, and many would in fact prefer an ivy if they could get in. So what does Emory offer that an Ivy does not, its social scene…I think now. My point about cross admits was that those who get in to an Ivy reject Emory and those who get rejected from an Ivory are common forced into their “backup school”. Some schools have different strengths depending what you are interested in, I fail to see where Emory beats out these other places. Cayuga, why do you think Emory is seen as a safety school and why do you think its yield is so low?</p>
<p>Finally, since you love to bring up Cornell. Cornell has alot of schools we realize that, but to say the hotel school is not a back door in admissions because kids have a “passionate interest in hospitality,” makes no sense. How do you show this interest by working as a waiter? Or the school of labor relations, my friend is attending there next year with sub par grades/Sats (he would be going somewhere allot worse) and I can honestly say he could care less about labor unions–he wanted the ivy name. Every aspect of a school cotnributes to its reputation, Cornell admirably takes allot of students and has allot of diverse schools and I think this actually does in fact hurt Cornell’s perception to a degree.</p>
<p>I never said success wasn’t based on personal skills and drive, just the fact that these aspects of life (along with your intellect) play a large part in what colleges you are admitted to. Honestly unless you just want to be in the South there are very few reasons to choose Emory over an Ivy and that is why its yield is so low and why its reputation isn’t as good as some other schools. I have no idea what you are trying to argue about me with, maybe you can make that clear?</p>
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<p>Financial aid? A compelling merit scholarship, perhaps.</p>
<p>Bescraze - </p>
<p>I have a friend who went to a small, unranked public university to study theatre. Talent wise, the guy can hold his own with any one. If he had gone to Yale, the school generally considered the best theatre school in the country, he would have been awash in a sea of extremely talented actors and perhaps only gotten one or two mainstage shows.</p>
<p>But, since the purpose of school is to learn, he went to the small unranked school, was cast in almost every single show, and gained an extraordinary amount of experience in a large array of roles. He is now consistently working in L.A. as an actor, not because of his degree but because his college education provided him the ability to develop his talent, which he then effectively demonstrated in auditions.</p>
<p>Nobody’s saying that for certain professions it doesn’t help to have a Yale degree. What we’re saying is that each individual has different goals. For certain people, having a Yale degree means far less than having the experience. In many fields, where you went to school doesn’t matter. Perhaps Emory provides the perfect forum for many to manifest their highest potential.</p>
<p>I say this from the deepest source of sincerity - you should make an effort to see the world beyond your black and white perspective. Just because you want to live in NYC and work as an I-Banker from a top college doesn’t mean everybody would if only they were good enough to. As Cayuga said, you’re missing the nuance of human existence. </p>
<p>You make outrageous claims about schools, slandering or elevating schools for which you could not possibly have enough first hand knowledge to make any claim. Rather than using this board to learn about different schools at your age, you get defensive or accusatory when people defend those schools from being unnecessarily slandered.</p>
<p>Enough of this.</p>
<p>Do you understand why you have enraged so many on this board? Do you understand why great stats are not a guarantee that you’ll get into Penn or Columbia if you cannot demonstrate an ability to listen, assess, analyze, and adjust your perspective? That is what school is for. You notice that the more educated people are, the less insistent they are about an ideology (be it religious, political, economic…). They see the nuance.</p>
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That is a legitimate reason to pick a different school..I never said there were no reasons to choose certain schools over others. My only point when ranking schools was to assert that in certain broader categories certain schools provid more opportunities. </p>
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<p>I appreciate your advice, but you also I think should understand that life is different than you and a few others advocate on this board. People aren’t as “nuanced” as you and do not necessarily have the same egalitarian approach to everything. When someone on this board who knows nothing about colleges asks should I go to Duke or BU. I am going to be honest and say Duke, while others will say “go with the best fit, it makes no difference.” I believe that is doing someone a disservice..since it really does.</p>
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<p>If I have enraged a few of you --you cayuga, pizzagirl–it is simply because you are hostile to any oppinion different than your own. Many others have agreed with me and I hope people can benefit from a diversity of opinions to allow them to decide on their own what is best.</p>
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<p>All of us frequently encounter and respect different opinions on this board. Plenty of threads demonstrate that. When we take a stand against someone repeatedly claiming, for example, that all schools are HYP-rejects or that only Ivy rejects go to Emory, you accuse us of being hostile. Hilarious. </p>
<p>Should I respect, say, Hitler’s opinion that all Jews should be wiped from the earth? Am I hostile against opinions different from my own, or simply standing up for truth in the face of a falsehood?</p>
<p>You should be a lawyer. Seriously. You could frustrate the hell out of some witnesses and prosecutors.</p>
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<p>I don’t quite know what to tell you. The Hotel School formally interviews every student to try to screen out backdoor admits. Over 80 percent of all incoming students to the Hotel School have had work experience in the hospitality industry. And in my experience, Hotel Students are some of the most committed and passionate students at Cornell. They may have a rough time with multivariable calculus, but within three years after graduating they are managing Las Vegas hotels and Bahamas resorts.</p>
<p>The ILR school is a bit trickier. I’m an ILR alum and I would agree that a fair number of students get in that don’t necessarily have the best affinity for the school. It’s easier to skirt through due to the fact that students applying for ILR have different interests – law, economics, business, negotiation, conflict resolution, international relations, social justice, or policy. I also know that applications have increased a lot in recent years and the school is having trouble managing its yield – it varies by 10 percent from year to year. I would say 10-20 percent of students end up not having much of an interest in the ILR coursework, like the person you mention, but the vast majority go into field directly applicable to what they studied.</p>
<p>I’m disappointed to hear about your acquaintance being accepted to ILR without a good fit. I interviewed a great student from a local high school of mine who was waitlisted for ILR. He seemed like a great fit, reminded me a lot of myself, and I was very disappointed that he didn’t get an opportunity to attend. The Evil Asian Dictator, a frequent commentator on these boards, was waitlisted for ILR, but accepted to Duke. Life is often confusing and unable to be explained.</p>
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<p>But that’s a stupid answer to the question, because all you’re doing is taking a USNWR ranking and applying it blindly. The student could have looked up the USNWR on his own; he’s asking for nuanced perspective. </p>
<p>What does the student WANT out of college? Maybe he wants a big-city urban setting where he walks out of his door and really grooves on the idea of an urban setting without a traditional campus feel. Maybe there’s a particular field that BU offers that Duke doesn’t. Maybe he grew up in NC and wants out of the south. Maybe the idea of all those rah-rah sports fans at Duke give him the willies. Maybe he has a better financial offer from BU. Maybe he just wants to hear qualitatively what the people are like. I, personally, have no ties to Duke or BU, so I couldn’t be of much help. But what is helpful is for the Duke people to say, “For your interests, you might like what Duke offers in this area” and for the BU people to say, “For your interests, you might like what BU offers in this area.” If all you can do is say “Duke is better than BU in the rankings, duh” – you’ve offered zero help.</p>
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<p>No, YOU’RE the prestige oriented one, and you’d never choose Emory over an Ivy under any circumstance. But not everyone is you. I myself chose NU over an Ivy. Why? Because even though I had stronger ties to Philly than to Chicago, I liked the MMSS program at NU better than Wharton. They were both excellent programs; what’s the downside? Note how it’s also not necessary for me to spit on Wharton; I’m happy with my experience, and the Wharton kids are happy with theirs, it’s all good.</p>
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<p>What is your basis for knowing what schools provide what opportunities in the real world, when you’re a rising high school senior? Don’t you think that those of us who are actually working in the real world have better insight into how the working world views these schools?</p>
<p>I’ll let you in a little secret. Aside from some very specific niche fields (like i-banking on Wall St), and aside from some particular specialty programs (like journalism at NU, theater at NU or Yale, hotel at Cornell, etc.), the world of employers treat all the schools at the top 20 or so level pretty darn equivalently. The people graduating from there are typically pretty darn smart, and then they judge you on how you sell yourself. No one sits there and says, oh, this applicant went to Duke and that one to Cornell, Duke is x points higher on USNWR, so let’s hire the Duke guy. NO ONE, Bescraze. There’s no essential difference in the opportunities you’ll have at the top 20 schools. They may be slightly DIFFERENT opportunities, they may be nuanced here and there, there may be some regional differences in recruiting, but a smart person isn’t going to go wrong with any of those choices. At all. And so when it comes down to deciding between schools at this level, aside from specific programs, it all comes down to personal fit.
And (gasp) if the personal fit is better at #20 than at #10, then #20 is the place to go.</p>
<p>Guys, don’t bother with Bescraze anymore, seriously. No one’s going to get through to him/chance his mind and he’s annoying pretty much all of us.</p>
<p>Most forums have a block user feature. Unfortunately this one doesn’t.</p>
<p>^^YOU guys are ridiculously thickheaded. There was a recently a thread here that especially in times of recession like these The job market has limited openings and that brand name school you attend can make the difference where you get your interview or first job, which then sets you up on a career path. If you are interested in future opportunities there is a gigantic difference between DUKE AND BU–that is life and that is not my opinion simply but dozens that I have personally heard from (and my guess are much older and more successful than you)</p>
<p>Finally applejack that example about hitler was so stupid, we are not talking about killing people, but what schools are better. In the end of the day will attending Cornell over Yale kill you in job placement, no but it may make a slight difference. But will the difference between Dartmouth and BU or BC hurt you—absolutely… I am done posting here since you guys simply do not reflect the beliefs of society.</p>
<p>There are many firms that would recruit at Emory and never set foot at Yale or Harvard. Every school has a pool of companies that recruit at a group of schools in their region. Many may prefer business and engineering majors over the Ivy liberal arts majors. When the top IB and consulting jobs cut back the Ivy grads have a much tougher time because most regular companies do not recruit there.</p>
<p>cayuga,
Hey, I say let the kid post. It’s a free world and shutting down comment, even if it is inexperienced and often unenlightened, is not the answer. </p>
<p>As for the comment about recessionary hiring patterns, I think you will find that the undergraduate name has limited to zero value as the new prospective employer is not looking at your undergraduate education, but rather your performance in the workplace to date. That is where the rubber meets the road and frankly, the issues of prestige are all swept aside at that point. A good performing worker from Emory who might have gotten the axe from a layoff (eg, Bear Stearns or something similar) is preferable to an Ivy grad who has not had as effective or productive a business experience. THIS is what employers care about-not the undergraduate college and this effect increases with each passing month and year after college graduation.</p>